As always the views expressed
by the writer do not neccessarily reflect the views of antiMUSIC or the
iconoclast entertainment group .
We Need Riffs
Posted by Jeremy:
you guys are all retarded fi your gonna bash antyhing from LZ or the 70's...go to led-zeppelin.com/forum and poke around, there is more to LZ than you think
Posted by Lucy:
and oh yeah, Dazed and Confused was originally a Yardbirds song, FYI. But seeing as the group broke up, Jimmy took it with him to Zep.
Posted by Lucy:
Do you people not understand the blues? Anyone who plays the blues is using things that have already been played, it's just how you make it different from the original that matters. Basically any music that came out of the late 60s is blues-based.
Posted by steve:
Yes i am aware that they took lot of blues lyrics i don't dispute that. What page was good at was taking influence from something and then creatively turn it into something that in most respects was completely different, the bands argument was that with songs like whole lotta love that their version was so far from the original it was practically a new song. But did you think the blues really appeared out of no where, of course not the old bluesmen are just as guilty of the same thing hell I've even read books about them taking some traditional songs and adding some new flavor to it, and they didn't have any problems crediting themselves as the songwriter. Hendrix stole curtis mayfield licks but wait didn't curtis mayfield steal them from pop staples, are you starting to see a pattern. This form of borrowing has been done for decades but it only started to become a problem when money came into the equation and turned some bluesmen into business men. Anyway I'm sick of arguing about this i have done my research over the years on this subject and found out just how hypocritical the music business and music critics can be. I like nirvana i have everyone of their albums and think Kurt is a talented player.
Posted by GTD:
Even the writer of the big Zep fan book Hammer Of The Gods points out that Zep completely ripped off "Dazed And Confused" from a New York-based dude called Jake Holmes. Page just changed the lyrics. I think it was Willie Dixon (who to Zep's credit they did actually credit for the 2 songs on Zep I that they covered) who sued them for "Whole Lotta Love". The song "Gallows Pole" was an old English tune, but it is credited to Page/Plant on the fourth album. On the other hand, Page and Jones did come up with some amazing original music on their own too, and that music was quality enough that kids are still getting turned on to Zeppelin even today (and if you had a kid, wouldn't you rather have him or her love LZ over Ozzy's daughter?) Kurt-bashers just piss me off, OK, if you don't like Nirvana then it's cool, they aren't to your taste - but don't bash them as a "3-chord knowing" band until you have heard something more tham "Cpme As You Are".
Posted by steve:
Ok i get your point but better is subjective. and yes i am aware of the huge amount of teenage posers but like you said there are many other bands that are less know that deserve to be heard but when i was young i remember hearing immigrant song live with a full f dorian solo with a few yardbirds licks thrown in that made me take an interest in the music of that era and i found many more bands through lz so maybe there is hope for the teens. I still want someone to point out some stolen blues riffs, i have heard hundreds of blues albums and i can only find a couple.
Posted by steve k (to distinguish myself from the steve below):
What bugs me the most about Zeppelin isn't that they were a bad group (cause they weren't) it's just that there's so much better music from the 1970s that's been totally forgotten, whereas these days you can't swing a dead cat without hitting some 14-year-old kid with long hair and a Zep T-shirt. This is the decade that gave us Frank Zappa, David Bowie, George Clinton, the Clash, Stevie Wonder, Curtis Mayfield and tons more. All those artists are at least ten times better than Led Zep, and none claim even one-tenth of the popularity. The thing with Zeppelin is that they weren't musically original at all; they were *sonically* original. Page was a brilliant producer - the band sounds absolutely huge on those old records, and that's why you don't always notice their thieving of a blues riff. It might be the same riff you hear on an Elmore James or Willie Dixon record, but it sounds so much bigger.
Posted by steve:
ok im gonna take bad anything bad i said about you before lithiumbliss. I actually like nirvana and yes kurt new more than 3 chords. Now what annoys me is people passing led zeppelin of as unoriginal blues theives, come on then have you actually heard the blues songs they suposedly stole, i doubt it just keep on pretending you know what you are talking about and come on any one wanna point out some blues riffs they stole? As for plant, i understand his voice is not always liked but his singing on the 69-72 tours never cease to amaze me, to truly understand what they were about you have to look deeper than the offical releses(which i don't think represents them very well)to the bootlegs to see just how good they were, its just raw energy. I realise that they didn't credit a few too many people for their albums but led zeppelin 1 was recorded in about a week and for the most part mid tour so its safe to say crediting someone was the last thing on their mind and like i said before they it was done sooo often back then and sure it might be wrong but thats how it was back then. This is not all directed at you lithiumbliss.
Posted by LithiumBliss(soon to be known as GTD):
Nice rebuttal, Oscar, I'll take back my labeling of you as a Tard. Sometimes I do ratchet up my LZ bashing up a notch just because the Kurt haters piss me off, but I will always listen to reason. I'm bashing Plant on his live shows where he did indeed pretend he was busting a nut on stage. I'll admit that - in the studio - there of plenty of songs that Robert sang very well. His "high-pitched range" is not what turns me off about Plant (Christ, I love Rush, and Geddy was in the early days like a way screechier Plant clone), it's that live he didn't focus on delivering the vocals right, it was more about the rockstar pose and the after-gig nookie. Hey, I admitted that Plant did a bit of good work in the studio situation - why don't you come back and admit that KC knew more than 3 chords?
Posted by Oscar:
Just because you can come up with witty comebacks on some music website, does not mean that you're exempt from the "Dumbass Hall Of Fame" I read your posts all the time dude, and you always think you are right and somehow your bashing of good music will 'enlighten' some other dolts. Then you all come on the anti Music website and all post a bunch of crap. Sort of like an on-line Dumbass convention. The truth of the matter is that Zeppelin fans don't have to come on here to defend themselves to parasites such as yourself.( With the exception of me who just couldn't resist)What they have accomplished speaks for itself. The fact that 23 some odd years after their demise people still are amazed with their contribution to music. You're entitled to an opinion such as I am, but you always take it a bit further than you should. So you don't like Plant. To each his own. But then you go on to say 'should retire, he's a clown' As hard as it may be to wrap your pea brain around the concept, Robert Plant still has a huge fan base today. Still sells out venues. So, no to your displeasure, he's not going anywhere. And I'll admit, I have some zep bootlegs where Plant isn't the greatest vocally, but that's one little piece of the big ass pie. Singers (at least good ones) have range. So while Plant was more known for his high pitched range, there are dozens of examples where he showcases his voice with such heartfelt emotion that make him worthy of being one of the best vocalists in the history of rock n' roll. 'Babe I'm Gonna Leave You' 'Thankyou' 'That's The Way' 'Tangerine' 'Stairway' 'Going To California' 'Ten Years Gone'Just a few examples where he's not 'busting a nut' True fans know this, those who just hear 'Black Dog' over and over and over on the radio will agree with your theory. Learn.
Posted by Wes Rains:
I applauded you lith.
Posted by Lith:
I hate to double post like a tool, but Oscar is a tard who deserves an extra dose of TardAway Aerosol Spray. First off, the next person that says Kurt only knew three chords that says it to my face is either going to be killed like his d-bag wife had him killed, or he's going to get tied to a chair A Clockwork Orange-style and forced to hear Bleach in its entirety. No, El Tardo, Kurt was no great axe man (do you at least admit that Cantrell rips?) but he knew way more then 3 chords, moron. Second point: have you heard anything off of Mr. Robert "I don't sing live, I just pretend to bust a nut on stage" Plant's newest CD? I heard one song, and that was enough. You have to understand this - there are rock critics (and thankfully not here at anti) who bend over in any direction and even give the proverbial reacharound to crap washed-up geezer relics like Jagger and McCartney, and give 6 or 7 stars to their latest crapfest CDs that come out like the brown torrent of a hangover morning diarrhea blast. Guess what, they gave Plant only 2 stars. I bet his music sucks harder than anything David Oreck could invent in his wettest dreams of rug cleaning and vacuum masturbation. When you wish to try to school me, buy a book first. And to the rest of you dense ijits, read "Love And Death". Kurt did NOT kill himself.
Posted by LithiumBliss:
This is exactly why I come to this site, I get to read the ravings of tards and it amuses me. Yes, I love the music of Mr. Cobain, but like Kurt himself would have wanted, I don't put him on any damn pedestal. I'm simply saying that the man wrote some damn good song DESPITE his lack of chops, but I guess I haven't said it simply enough for the simpletons around here. (Yes, "simpletons" is sort of an old word, substitute "tards" or "dumbasses" and maybe you'll realoze I'm talking about you jack aces. I call Eric "Crapton" that you tell you what I think of him. I could go on and rebut more of your idiotic crap, but frankly I'm too tired too waste my time on morons. read my previous ish and then tell me where I dissed Vai's skills on the axe. He could play rings around Kurt for 3 day straight and not even get a slight cramp in his pinky, but Kurt did better songs. and let's all end this up in a bit of peace - is there any band that sucks as bad as U2?
Posted by John:
Wow, Vai a wanker? What a bunch of idiots. If you have listened to his albums, and you still call him a wanker, you don't know anything.
Posted by Adam N:
And Nirvan was horrible. They began a decade of un-inspired music. Cobaine was just a druged out loser who happened to become famous, then killed himself like a coward.
Posted by Adam N:
Yeah, Ummm....if you think steve vai is jsut a mindless, bording, shredder, then I cannot take your opinion about music seriously. Only a fool would deny that vai is out of this world. Go see the man live and you will know the true meaning of virtuosity.
Posted by steve k:
Please forgive my over-use of the word "total."
Posted by steve k:
hmmm...I wrote all the comments under the name 'steve' except that last one...um, this message system totally sucks. That 'steve' is totally wrong too; Led Zeppelin were a total rip-off.
Posted by RyRy:
Jesus Christ, metal kids sure do whine alot.
Posted by prostring strummer:
blink 182 is gay
Posted by Wes Rains:
I have to disagree with andi, I am not the biggest Nirvana fan and I was only a fan when I was younger and less educated about music. But Nirvana did change a lot of things even if they weren't the first ones to have "their sound". And it wasn't timing, it was the music business who decided that they were the new thing. And people never get sick of lame music, you haven't listened to a radio station at all this last year or been around all the little pop culture brats. That lame 80s music is back.
Posted by qwok:
Steve Vai is only boring to those who know he's untouchable and will never be able to play like him. Let go of the anger and enjoy...He is out of this world.
Posted by andi:
Lithium Bliss is one of those guys who puts Kurt Cobain on a pedestal and thinks he changed the face of music. I can name dozens of other musicians from the 'grunge' era that can run circles around Nirvana. Soundgarden, for example. Nirvana just had the right timing. People were sick of the lame music in the early 90's so when Kurt and the boys came along and started 'changing' music for the ages to come, they managed to convince the masses they were super talented. If a band like Nirvana came out today they wouldn't make any waves.
Posted by steve:
Oh wow more led zeppelin bashing it is quite incredible the stupidity true led zeppelin fans have to endure, I'm not exactly a fanboy infact I'd take pink Floyd over them anyday but: They very rarely stole riffs, they are considered thieves when almost every blues based band of the 60's used parts of blues lyrics etc, Eric clapton is considered one of the greats but i don't see him getting bashed for his widely used 'stolen licks, riffs and lyrics, they are an incredibly easy target for the uneducated loser who thinks they never had any originality or talent. lithiumbliss i bet you think the grunge era is the best, you own a jazzmaster and think you are gods gift to the guitar world
Posted by Oscar:
And Steve Vai is boring?? Yes, and someone who made a living playing 3 chords over and over is more interesting.
Posted by Oscar:
Wow...amazing some of the sh!t people say on here. The comments about Robert Plant and his voice not being good...dudes get a clue. And Plant shouldn't retire. People with longevity don't retire.(talentless turds like Kurt Cobain go and kill themselves... wanna talk about overrated? Look it up in a dictionary it will say Nirvana right next to it) At least Robert Plant isn't hauling his carcass through big stadiums reliving his glory days. He's constantly changing and I applaud him for it.
Posted by steve:
People who play the guitar well are just people who play the guitar well. They aren't gods. F*ck hero worship.
Posted by Wes Rains:
Lithium, you understated Rhoades he is a god, enough said. SRV too.
Posted by LithiumBliss:
Like I said, godpuppet, I have mad respect for the man's skills, but the songs bore me. You bring up Satch - I think Surfing With The alien is an excellent album, but that's because Joe wrote actually good SONGS based on killer RIFFS. Then his solos blew you away. That's why I will always dig Randy Rhoads, he could solo like a mofo, but the songs were good. SRV is wothry of being a fav, I think mine is Alex Lifeson. You don't hear too much about that guy, but he could wail.
Posted by godpuppet:
lithiumbliss - steve vai is hardly speed for just speeds sake, alot of his music experementing with different timings and styles and he plays with a massive amount of feeling. Wanking for wanks sake is more like michael angelo batio or rusty cooley who dont have many positive attributes apart from speed. Vais pretty much mastered every style on guitar and in my mind is at a par with satriani as being the best in the world at the moment, allthough stevie ray vaughan will probably allways be my persenal fav.
Posted by Wes Rains:
Steve I never said playing 5ths was hard I said that power chords are the easy way to play them. And I completely agree with you that people should not be happy about rehashing. Then read liths post, because he knows his stuff.
Posted by LithiumBliss:
Yo, he ain't saying fifths are difficult to achieve, I think he's saying power chords are an easy way to get fifths (or maybe he's trying to talk about Drop D tuning, which makes power chords only need one barred finger). And for Christ's sake the inteval bettwenn the 3rd and 2nd string is not a fourth, it's a major third, so put that in your pipe and smoke it. And as far as your last comment - rehashing is all that can be done on the axe by now. Kurt said it best: "There's 12 notes and then it repeats. It can only go to a certain point and it got to that point ten tears ago. And there will be another band just like the Brack Crowes 20 years from now, doing a version of the Black Crowes doing a version of the Faces." And speaking of Steves, that dude steve Vai has my ultimate respect for mastering amazing ish on the fretboard, and no one can deny his prowess. Too bad his music bores the piss out of me. Wanking for wank's sake is nothing but wanking. A killer riff is eternal. Mad thanks to Malcolm.
Posted by steve:
Well Wes Rains, I'd have to say to you that if you find playing fifths on a guitar something difficult that you have to "achieve," then your guitar skills must be somewhere in the lowest ranks of the 13-year-olds-with-a-$150-guitar demographic. The thing is tuned in fourths, for Christ's sake. My point, anyway, is that people who are happy with not innovating and rehashing '70s style riffs - no matter how much practicing they get it - will be forgotten. Period.
Posted by BUTCH :
you want "good" music? then make yer own.that simple---ode to joy is one helluva a riff. what you talkin' 'bout, willis?
Posted by GREENMUSE:
though it seems blasphemy i agree with lith.i find it amazing such a lousy vocalist could have a career so long.
Posted by RyRy:
LithiumBliss: I agree that Robert Plant has done some lame stuff outside of Zeppelin, but he kicked some ass playing harmonica on Prial Scream's newest record. Check it.
Posted by Jake:
Amen.
Posted by Wes Rains:
Steve you must not be much of a guitarist, power chords may seem " dinosaur done-to-death-already crap" but they are in fact and easy way to achieve fifths. I don't think people need to be experimenting on their guitars more, I think they need to be actually learning how to play, how to maintian, and how to practice their guitars. They also need to know some music theroy and have the attutide that they don't know enough and are trying to learn more.
Posted by LithiumBliss:
Point taken, Jake, but you must remember that when LZ were in their prime even old Uncle Lith was but a laddie. How can we really expect the kids today to appreciate Zep if all they really hear mostly is the same damn 3 songs on the klasik krap stations or on freakin car commercials. and that clown Plant doesn't have the sense to retire and the song he just released may rival the works of Britney for a slot in the Hall Of Lame? Besides, Zeppelin stole most of their riffs anyway. They the probably the most overrated band in history. Yes, I must confess, I used to like them (and still actually like some of their ish), but then around 1990 I found singers that can actually sing instead of just pretending they are busting a nut on the mic.
Posted by Anuj:
If you want to check out some good rap music, give "The Low End Theory" by A Tribe Called Quest a spin.
Posted by Jake:
An article on riffs and noone mentioned Zeppelin. Shame.
Posted by RyRy:
Hey Zane, you're whitter than a Comp USA employee at a Red Sox game. You need a little soul in your audio diet, and maybe some riff that weren't written in drop D.
Posted by steve:
I don't think there's anything special about the guitar in particular (and this coming from someone who plays it.) It's the music that counts, whether you play it on a guitar, piano, program it with a computer, whatever. But if you want the guitar to continue being interesting to listen to we gotta ditch the dinosaur done-to-death-already crap like "power chords" and find actual new ways of playing the damn thing. There must be *some* techniques left to discover, right?
Posted by Hobo:
That is a stupid thing to say Stapp. Reprimand yourself for your ignorance.
Posted by Anuj:
If you want something that is a little more "alt.rock" check out Smashing Pumpkins, Pavement, At the Drive In etc.
Posted by mccready:
i agree that we need riffs, but i don't think they're as scarce as the guy from the article says. look at queens of the stone age, or opeth, or tool, or dream theater, or even the foo fighters. man, there are really cool riffy rocking bands out there, and they're not even that underground. just look around a little bit.
Posted by Scott Stapps Ego:
All the good riffs have already been written.
Posted by Wes Rains:
Hobo has it right, hell Joe Strummer had it right, "You've got to go underground."
Posted by Wes Rains:
I think its the lack of talent and the fact that people don't practice and learn as much as they should on guitar. I've had to sit through way too many bands that only scrap a few chords raw and expect people to fall in love. Its one thing to be Johnny Ramone and hammer the hell out of your guitar but to be riffing machine is even better. The guitarist that are riff monster right now are not getting any attention, those are the guys who spent hours getting everything down.
Posted by Hobo:
Umm I dont meant to sound like an azzhole, but why dont you delve a little beneath the mainstream? There IS more rock than whats on the radio and TV? Im my precious lil lesser-known death/grind world there are riffs aplenty - there are still bands breaking boundaries and writing the most ridiculously catchy, style and technical riffs ever heard. Look harder.
Posted by dolly:
no, EEEE! Linkin Park was exactly right & Beethoven may not have written "Highway to Hell", but Rachmaninov did! A cave painting in France said so.
Posted by CIAM:
That was meant to say "see Linkin Park"
Posted by Caught in a Mosh:
Yes, we do need riffs. Otherwise it's exactly what we have now: some guy playing a chord every few seconds while some emo bastard sings over it. (ee Linkin Park.)
Posted by Mike Feranda:
"Beethoven couldnt write a riff like Highway to Hell." -- Beethoven composed music while having extreme diarrhea most of his life and being deaf... which they have now diagnosed him with having lead poisoning by finding high traces in his hair. Comparing a musical genius like Beethoven to AC/DC is like comparing the ride of a Bentley to a bicycle.
Posted by mr. G:
"Beethoven couldnt write a riff like Highway to Hell." And visa versa. I would indeed like to hear ACDC compose a complex work like "Fόr Elise".
Posted by LB:
Christ, I can't type since I stepped on my glasses and broke them. It should say "over" and "George Lynch solo".
Posted by LithiumBliss:
That's what made Kurt so great when he hit, he just wrote some of the coolest riffs ever. So what that he couldn't shred like those shred mofos. I'll take a good Nirvana song (or any band) with a killer riff for the length of the song pver a crap Dokken tune with maybe 20 seconds of an amazing George Lynch songs slapped in the middle of the crap. That's why Ozzy was so great when he had Randy, and soloed his ass off, but the songs were built upon great riffs.
Posted by Anuj:
I feel you, Zane. It's the same story with me. Just this past week I heard Queen properly for the first time. Sheer Heart Attack and Night at the Opera are great albums. The opening guitarwork on "Brighton Rock" as well as "Killer Queen", and of course the solo halfway thru "Bohemian Rhapsody" (popularized by Wayne's World), are just phenomenal. Brian May is now one of my heroes.
