Posted by ZeKe: You have a very good point there. I never
really understood that concept of "sellout" until now. Thanks.
Posted by
Sir Psycho Sexy16: I also want to add that Metallica rule
advert or not. Its this Hip-Hop crap that Ive heard about that James Hetfield
is supposed to be involved with. James, DONT DO IT!
Posted by
Sir Psycho Sexy16: I agree that the word sellout is over
used. I dont care unless a band advertises a product. On the Metallica
theme, I think, but im not sure, that they did a Pepsi advert, which is
totally selling out. Also, this is funny-ish, i had a friend, who is &
was a trendy. I was arguing with her about who was better; RHCP, or S Club7,
& arguement was that s club7 had just signed a massive deal to sell
Pepsi......PURE SELLOUT
Posted by
no name: ok, i agree, we should be happy when our
favorite band becomes popular, but as well as respected throughout the
music scene. i think its mtv's fault. they saturate any band with great
potential, and fans simply get tired of it, since theyre on the radio all
the time, on trl, teenyboppers like them, so they lose all their originality
and their mystery, which are the first two elements that are really important
when attracting fans.
Posted by
rocky racoon: I agree there i wouldnt want to see a
STP/Rage tour in 2035 in fact i wouldnt want to see a STP/Rage show in
2001 :)
Posted by
LithiumBliss: Dylan stands tall in a league of his own.
I think by "retirement age" I meant I wouldn't want to go see the Stone
Temple Pilots / Rage Against The Machine tour in the year 2035.
Posted by
rocky racoon: Hey Lithium here coms that flame- Paul
Mccartney has made some great music in the last decade, he just loves making
music and thats why he continues to do it. Thank god theres no retirement
age otherwise we wouldnt have had Dylans -love and theft or lenard Cohens-10
new songs thsi year. Im not sure its as easy as "writing a songs that sounds
like creed" and then becomeing insatntly famous. If it is then im going
to ring the mmebers of my band and well get to work, writing a creed like
song.
Posted by
LithiumBliss: Have to disagree, Rocky - selling your
music and image for soundtracks or ads is the #1 example of being a stone
cold sellout. I don't know if Tinfoilica sold out, they might have just
gotten old and mellow, but their greed in their anti-Napster stance certainly
points in that direction. There should be a mandatory retirement age for
rockers. Witness the pathetic output of geriatrics such as Jagger and McCartney(I
know you'll flame me for this Rocky but he is only further tarnishing his
legacy as 1/3 of the genius Beatles). The biggest sellouts have to be Aerosmith.
I guess they must have blown all their old loot on drugs and hoes before
they got clean, and now they desperately whore themselves to maintain their
mansions, limos, and Lear jets. Using hacks like Desmond Child and Diane
Warren to write your songs, selling current music to sell products, and
especially appearing at the super bowl with Britney Faketitney and her
sham boyfriend's candy ass boy group (not band - group /BANDS PLAY INSTRUMENTS)
is total sellout behavior. Real musicians play the music that comes from
within.Granted, anyone would love huge cash and mad hotties all over them
( I know I would.) My two little unknown bands make our own CDs to give
our friends and maybe sell a few for 3 or 4 bucks after our gigs. Sure
I wish we were famous and all that, but we can only play what we play from
inside. To say,"Hey, let's write some songs that sound like Creed so people
will love us" would be bull shyte. Props to the bands who hit the big time
without compromising their vision, like the late great Nirvana. I'm know
I'm rambling now - I'll sum it up. Bands can and do change their basic
sound for various reasons. Sometimes it is just a result of musical growth,
or maybe feeling that the usual formula has gotten stale. But using hired
gun hack writers, pitching soda, cars, or clothing, or pandering to the
masses by playing with crapola like NSYNC, is MOST DEFINITELY selling out.
Posted by
Screwtape: if a musician, artist, toenail painter,
whatever can make money doing what they want to do and people buy it OH
WELL. if i like something i like it. i don't have the energy to be a snot
and claim to know why a band did what they did based on speculation and
general run-of-the-mill BS. i would like songs to be driven by artistic
merit, but some people are just factories and can churn them out for whatever
reason (babyface). this definition has been beaten on all sides to hades
and back. i basically say if you are earning money for enything you don't
want to do for whatever reason you are a sellout. i see sooooo many pots
calling the kettle black.
Posted by
the goddess trog: I sold out.
Posted by
Guru of Everlasting Wisdom: Paul McCartney doesn't whine, Metallic
didn't sell out, Limp Bizkit is a stupid fad, we should stop talking about
Limp Bizkit, the hippies are not going to leave, PHISHguitarist has a cool
handle himself. That you, Trey? Now we have all the answers thanks to me,
the Guru of Everlasting Wisdom. Go in peace.
Posted by
PHISHguitarist: This is a well written article that takes
on both sides of the contraversy. One thing that was missed though, was
that selling out is more about the music corperation (the machine) than
the actual musicians themselves. To change the sound and style is one thing
(whether or not the public will "popularize" this music is irrelevant),
but if a band is forced by corperations and contracts to change the music
in the hopes of making more money, this is totally another issue. Dave
Matthews Band is an example of the latter position. Although I am NOT a
fan of Metallica (I frickin' hate the music [ALL of thier music]), I do
have an idea of what the situation is. Metallica did change their sound,
that much is clear, but they didn't nessacarly sellout. If they release
an album that sells well to a wider variety of consumers, than that is
good. Just becuase they are leaving behind the "old" Metallica, doesn't
mean that they are selling out. The goal of any musician is to make music
that people will like. If changing their sound slighty, broadens thier
audience, than they are just trying to acheive the goal. Just becuase hardcore
old-school Met fans are pissed off becuase they changed thier sound, they
should just get off the bands case, and just listen to thier old music.
Metallica is a very old band, and the possibilitiy that thier music will
remain constant is very slim. There is only so much a musician can do with
one style. The S&M album (although under exterme heat for "selling
out"), is a wonderful album. It is a major advancement in music itself
merging an orcharstra with a metal band. Metallica is just aging. They
are becomeing more musically advanced and more mature, creating music that
just doesn't shout out at it's listener, but instead makes more sence therotically
with thier new chord progressions and riffs. The fact the Metallica bitched
at congress about Napster doesn't make them sellouts, it just makes them
whinny little pussies. I guess "sellout" is just a term that people use
to derogatorize thier favorite band when they don't like them anymore.
Tell my what you think, P.S. Rocky Racoon is a smart guy, and he has a
cool handle ("Rocky didn't like that, he said 'I'm going to get that boy.'"
Posted by
Karlsberg: What is this the hippie forum? Take your
free love, leave Metallica alone cries and go home. They sold out long
ago and anybody that wants to listen to their goofy alternacrap is free
to do so. But don't give me your hippie dribble when I complain about it.
Posted by
Josh: I totally agree with your comment on sellouts...People
call bands sellouts and diss them, but what do they listen to? :P
Posted by
Rocky racoon: i disagree i think doing adds is a good
way to make money and would encourage all bands to try and make as much
money as possible from adds just like the rest of us are doing, that is
trying to make money. Doing adds doesnt change what music they make. using
your theory Michael Jorden and Tiger Woods are sellouts and pathetic for
doing nike adds. And yeah Gwark has summed it up nicely
Posted by
buck d from dc: I don't think any music that any band
puts out counts as a sell-out. They are musicians, and music is what musicians
do. To me, a sell-out is when a musician or actor becomes a product spokesperson
for something that has nothing to do with their music. Jewel is a high-profile
example. No matter what you may think of her songwriting skills etc., she
makes her music & finds an audience, whatever, fine. But when she agrees
to do an ad for the GAP, that's a sell-out. Likewise Aerosmith. Their music
has changed over the decades, and nearly every album has something to recommend
it, but when they start shilling for blue jeans and light beer on TV, it
makes me sick. Don't you guys make enough f@*!ing money already?
Posted by
Gwark: Don't you think it would be easier for
everyone to just take each album on it's own terms? All this "sellout"
talking makes music into a soap opera. Just listen, like what you like
and leave everyone else alone. There are thousands upon thousands of bands/artists,
which equate to millions of albums. Don't waste your time busting the bands.
Enjoy the music you like. Life is too damn short to waste your time on
trivial stuff.
Posted by
CrazyBumFungus: I know... everybody seems to harp on Metallica
every time they get a lawsuit. Lots of other bands are dealing with them
too, Mtallica is just a big target right now. That will pass pretty soon
when their new album comes out and kicks everybody's ass. People will forget
about all the other shyt pretty soon.
Posted by
KiFi62: Loads of bands have had lawsuits, Met
have just been exposed to much
Posted by
KiFi62: Loads of bands have had lawsuits, Met
have just been exposed to much
Posted by
CrazyBumFungus: Hello, all you people who say Metallca
only cares about the $ is wrong. They don't sue for money. They sue because
somebody is using their name or music illegally. That's right it IS illegal!
There are copyright laws you know. And in the end, they have to pay lawyer's
fees.
Posted by
rocky racoon: pick would you mind explaining what you
meant when you called Paul Mccartney a whinner
Posted by
pick: Oh, and I forgot a couple of things. One:
Ozzy is the God of Metal, so anything he does is off-limits to criticism.
It would be like pointing a finger at Chuck Berry. Also, sending a drummer
to Congress for the purpose of shutting down an online community adored
by millions of music listeners shows Metallica is not worried about their
fan base but rather their status.
Posted by
pick: Ever since the Napster debaucle, I have
hated Metallica. I do not dislike Metallica because they "sold out" but
rather due to their selfish, money-grubbing ways. However, there is a strong
case for Metallica selling out. Remember what happened after "Load" and
"Reload" were released? Their old albums, which had sold well, were now
selling better than ever thanks to a different sound engineered solely
for the purpose of attracting a younger, dumber audience. Instead of musicians,
the members of Metallica have become businessmen and whine as much as Elton
John, Paul McCartney and Diana Ross. I just can't respect Old Metallica
when New Metallica has taken over.
Posted by
Mind Head: Thanks AntiGuy that was a great article
and has given me a lot to think about.
Posted by
Karlsberg: Metallica didn't sell out because they
gained popularity they sold out because their music went to hell (and not
in a good sense). They were already pretty damn popular when their music
was still good (granted, they did get more popular when they started releasing
crap).
Posted by
mickeyj: as an added note, if you think metallica
are "dinosaurs" in the rock world, you didn't see them at sanitarium last
summer.
Posted by
mickeyj: metallica has always, does, and will always
rule. they may be jerk-offs in the legal terms but that has nothing to
do with the music they do. God, i'm so fcking sick of people yelling sell
out at them. I love all their albums. some albums weren't as good as others.
the true fans are the ones that stay with the band, and don't yell "SELLOUT!"
just because they gain some more popularity.
Posted by
austin: bum, What about them suing the car rim
company? That is just insane, and very selfish, just goes to show they
don't care about the fans, just the $
Posted by
Twisted: This article was a load of crap. Metallica
didn't evolve, they sold out pure and simple. Anybody who was into the
band from the early days would know this. Read through their interviews
over the years and you can see it happening. It's a shame but it's their
lives. F'em. Pantera evolved, they were always into metal and evolved from
the lighter side to the heavier - there's nothing wrong with that.
Posted by
CrazyBumFungus: This is what I've been trying to say for
so long. Metallica rules. I always tell people, times change,people change,
metallica changes and obviously their music changes too. As for suing people,
they don't sue for money, they sue becuase somebody is using their music
or name illegally. There are copyright laws. By the way, Limp Bizkit is
the worst band ever. They have no talent, but they are so full of themselves.
Posted by
MaxPower324: There is a difference between a band changing
their musical style to become popular and evolving. Most bands have to
evolve. The only band I can think of that never really changed is AC/DC.
Heck, a band doesn't even have to change styles to become popular. Weezer's
green album does not sound much different than the blue one, and they are
being called sellouts just because they are successful. It's stupid. If
you like the music, listen to it. If you don't, don't.
Posted
by Josh: Kifi The three remaining members of metallica
are still metallica, they have said it themself, just cuz they don't have
a bass player doesn't not make them metallica. so by that reasoning you
can say this is a metallica project.
Posted by
D-Real: Crystal method 126 is gay. Cypress Hill
is better than Limp Bizkit
Posted by
????????????: the lights are blinken im freaken its
all over when mather f! drinken
Posted by
1244+6: ghbweygwkjefguwe
Posted by
crystal method 126: can eny body hear me !!! where the f#-K
is every body
Posted by
crystal method 126: im back maxi padsyou think you can get
rid of me you sick f!g
Posted by
Coondawg: The greatest band of all time; NIRVANA,
sold ****loads of albums and had plenty of videos on MTV, but they didnt
sell out. It is not about sales of media coverage, it is about your approach.
Offspring and KISS are two main sellouts I can think of.
Posted by
rocky racoon: Good on Metalica for trying something
different, itll be interesting to hear what a rap metal album from metalica
sounds like
Posted by
KiFi62: Yes...and some one else will find another
excuse to bash Metallica. Opinions opinions, that's all it is really. Here's
my excuse/opinion: It was Kirk & Lars, James wasn't part of it therefore
it is not a Metallica project. Also, I'd say it won't be anything like
rap metal and stuff, samething different and interesting, hopefully. Well
Josh, what's your excuse/opinion.
Posted by
LiquidPulse: I'm tired of hearing that Pantera was
a glam band. If you listen to Power Metal You can hear exactly what they
wanted to be, and that was the second coming of Judas Priest.
Posted by
Josh: Well i know this won't change anybodys
mind cuz you all will find some excuse to cover for metallica, but i just
heard that they were in the studio with none other than ja rule. you know
the brotha who's dickin j. ho during her spare time.
Posted by
Trendkill138: I've known about Pantera starting out
as a glam band since I first read about them. They put out two or three
records before Phil Anselmo came in, then they got a little heavier, and
then a lot heavier with "Cowboys From Hell". They're one of the few bands
I know of that actually took a left turn when they got on a major label.
Dr. Dre had a similar start. He was in some glam rap group called The World
Class Wreckin Crew, and then went on to N.W.A., who made some of the hardest
rap ever. I've been thinking ever since this rantitorial came up that there
could be a rant on the word "poseur".
Posted by
the max: I know they were a Van Halen tribute band...if
you want to call that glam...then I guess that's what it is.
Posted by
KiFi62: Putting it simple - my opinion says -
Metallica did what they wanted, if they were to do what everyone else wanted
- that would've made them sellouts. I think they are just musically unfolding,
Also, they have a talent that in unignorable, do you agree? I think their
talents were shown enormasly in Load & ReLoad. Were Panthera really
a Glam band?
Posted by
GREENMUSE: i was a big fan of diamond darrell,but
then he become a cool guy and smoked alot of pot,nows hes dimebag darrell,i
just think its hilarious to think they were glam rockers,but i guess they
are good at what they do,and people dig that.
Posted by
the max: You had better not be talking to me...
Posted by
cyrstalmethod126: hey maxi pad u think u can get rid of???
its kinda of sad what chu would do cause i was right.u can't get rid of
me u f-g.limp biskit rules so go fck your self!
Posted by
rocky racoon: Um Pantera chick, i think you might find
that Pantera started of as a glam metal band and changed there style from
glam to death metal at the same time that glam was going out and death
metal was coming in. Good on them for doing that and im defintely not calling
them a sellout because of the same reasons mentioned below but they did
change there style when they first started. And youd think that eventually
Pantera will change there sound a bit as they get older and more mature.
Posted by
Kizzy: The saddest part of all this is that really
bad music sells. It Doesn't matter what any of us think!
Posted by
PANTERA CHICK: That was a great article! Right on! But
bald man,check it out..You say metal bands are struggling? I'll tell ya
one metal band that ain't...PANTERA!! They will never change their style
to sell more records or wutever...Thank you,PANTERA, for helping spare
the little sanity I have left! And new metal?? HA! All it is is rap-metal..BOOO!!Godsmack
is alright tho...But Limp Bizkit...Man oh man...Someone needs to let the
air out of Fred Durst's ego!
Posted by
Josh: There's not a rule you can't stay popular
and remain stagnant (look at Mister Rogers (it ended today :( )) it's just
not a good idea. and i'm one for gradual change, i feel load was such a
radical change. but like rocky said, i can't say why they did it, so i
won't try to guess.
Posted by
fool: i think your mom is a sellout ha ha ha
Posted by
rocky racoon: Josh Its not that no group can sell but
its impossible to tell if a band has sold out and thats one of two reasons
why ill never call a band a sellout. HOW THE HELL WOULD YOU KNOW THE REASON
THAT A BAND CHANGES ITS SOUND.thats my point. you wouldnt have a clue only
the band memebers themeselves know why theve changed there sound. The other
reason that i would never use the word sellout is because bands need money
to surport themesleves and there family.
Posted by
the bald man: first and foremost, what i just read was
a great, great piece of writing. The summer after 7th grade a friend of
mine called me up and said, "Dude, you have got to come over and hear what
I just got". I went to his house and he played "Master of Puppets" for
the first time. I just about sh*t my pants. You younger guys have to keep
in mind that butt-rock ruled the day back then(motley crue, ratt, etc.)
What i heard that day changed my life, forever. I have been a huge fan
ever since. i've seen them 14 x's, and I rolled with the punchs they have
thrown at their fans. They have always been about doing it their way, regardless
of the repercussions, or backlash. When I heard that they got Bob Rock
to do their Black album, I was real pissed. I couldn't believe that they
decided to use a guy who has a history with the butt-rockers. When I heard
the record, it took me a few times of listening to it, to really like it,
but i supported them regardless. The point i'm trying to make is, that
people grow up. You cant stay stagnant. If you do you'll get stale. Look
at the other heavies from back in the day: Anthrax, Testament, Exodus,
etc. Yes I still love their music and I'll support them always, but they
are still struggling after all these years. All Metallica did was 'cross
over' to a whole new audience. The only people to blame for that is us,
the public. The Black album has sold over 10 million copies in the U.S.
alone. I will support them always, and I will keep going to there shows.
As far as Load and Reload are concerned, I do like both of them a lot.
If you take it at face value and don't compare them to earlier stuff, you
will find they are both great records. Comparing old and new Metallica
is the wrong thing to do. Remember, when Kill'em All came out they were
in their early 20's(possibly younger), when they released Reload they were
in their mid-30's. There is a big difference between what they wrote about
then and what they write about now. Let's face it, they are the biggest
band of our generation. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about
whether or not they are sell outs, but remember we are also the cause of
their success!
Posted by
Josh: Faith licks my nuts actually, I felt Stuck
and Counterfiet were the best songs on the first album. And me liking the
first album barely classifies me as a LB fan. I detest them now. I was
just makin the point that you can use every excuse you used for Metallica
for LB, the only thing is Metallica has been around awhile longer so more
people will say those excuses are true for them but not for LB. And it
seems rocky that you think no group can sell out. as long as they (the
group) considers it art.
Posted by
mike: wanna know a funny thing? i've been checking
out a few of these message boards, and no matter what the topic is, people
always find a way to bring it back to limp bizkit. we all know they suck
and that fred durst is full of himself, so let's try to stay on the topic
please.
Posted by
rocky racoon: Ive just re read that last post of yours
Josh and i cant believe that you can like the first Limp album i mean the
best song is a crap cover of a song that was allready crap. I dont know
nayone that like this album and alot of people that rate this as the worst
album of all time. But it shows that everyone has different taste in music
so too acuse someone of selling out simply because they dont make music
that suits YOUR taste in music anymore is a little pathetic
Posted by
rocky racoon.: Josh making a song for a soundtrack doesnt
make you a sellout it makes you a smart person- making a bit of money from
a song that you have lying around is a good idea. ANd Limp Bizcuit didnt
sellout they just added some melody and some hooks to the pathetic stuff
they were making before.
Posted by
Josh: Well put "?". Though Enter Sandman is
an easy one, it's just about nightmares and what not. And I just love how
there are always exceptions to the rules as fizzy showed. Limp Bizkit sucks
now, but come on their first CD was good rock.
Posted by
question mark: going platinum in itself does not make
you a sellout. having videos on mtv does not make you a sellout. making
a lot of money does not make you a sellout. changing musical styles does
not make you a sellout. in my opinion, you sellout when it becomes more
about moving products (c.d.s) than about making the music you want. when
it's more about marketing than about music. if you're playing the music
that you like and a lot of people discover you, that's a good thing. but
if you start catering to that mainstream/top 40/mtv crowd just to stay
rich, ride in limos, and party with supermodels, you are no longer making
the music you want. you are doing it for them. then you are a sellout.
and i think that's what happened to metallica. they had their own thing
going, had a strong fan base, then after they made a video they became
really big, and everyone loved them, they got used to the fame and money
and wanted to stay there. knowing that most people will move on to the
next big thing and forget about you in a year, they had to change to stay
that popular. that means no more singing about the death penalty (ride
the lightning), the horrors of drug use (master of puppets), war (for whom
the bell tolls) or corruption in government (and justice for all). now
the songs are about partying hard, love, and...i still haven't figured
out what "enter sandman" is about. great riff, but what the hell are they
talking about. making songs about nothing in particular is a staple of
mainstream/pop/top40 rock, and it's somewhere i thought metallica would
never go. and the whole napster thing showed us just how money hungry and
greedy they've become. as if they weren't living high off the hog. i guess
it's not enough that they sold multi-millions of c.d's and make millions
more on merchandising. now they wanna take every penny from college kids
who live on ramen noodles and macaroni who can't really afford 18 bucks
for a c.d. but i digress, that's a whole other topic. i have nothing against
jason newsted, i think he's an incredible bassist, and i respect him even
more now that he left the group, but metallica as i knew it died with cliff
burton.
Posted by
pete: when i first started listening to metallica
(the first 3 albums) and wearing their t-shirts, people called me satanic,
devil worshipper, etc., and people would make fun of me and kick my ass.
now those same people who used to beat me up are now sporting metallica
t-shirts, going to the shows, and shouting "metallica rules!" as they stomp
little kids in the pit. i think there is something very wrong with that.
by the way, i think all these jock preppy fratboy whores completely ruined
what we used to call moshing. they think they're in football practice and
try to tackle as many people as possible. it ruined the pit for those of
us who were there when it started.
Posted by
Kizzy: Limp Bizkit is just a really poor excuse
for a band anyway. Their lack of talent has nothing to do with them being
sell-outs or not. The term sell-out should be used for people who actually
matter.
Posted by
Chris: I think many artists who are called sell
outs don't deserve the title. I don't think that changing your band's style
of music should be considered "selling out" even if it was to become more
radio friendly or sell more records. I don't think that a band should compermise
their musicianship to make money though. The only time I would use the
term "sell out" would be when an artist puts their job as a "rock star"
before their job as a musician.
Posted by
Josh: Oh also if you go by what kizzy said,
then you could say Limp Bizkit wasn't a sell out band either.
Posted by
Josh: Ok, here's where I think Metallica sold
out, and that was with the release of I Disappear. A song made soley for
a soundtrack. Soundtracks are made for one thing, to make more money off
musicans and movies. Now it wouldn't have been has bad if Metallica allowed
them to use a previously recorded song. Instead, they made a P.O.S song
to make a few extra bucks. I'm a little hopped up on pills (stomach flu)
so i'm not sure if my point came across. it makes sense to me though.
Posted by
KiFi62: Actually, a few people have ben saying
that their new one is great. I must lend my ear to it sometime.
Posted by
the max: I just bought the new Slipknot...and I
must say, if any band were ever in a position to sell out it would be them.
Well I'm happy to say they've done the exact opposite. For all you retards
who think Slipknot is mallcore or mainstream. Get ready to eat your words.
That's right, no more of the same...no watered down version of what they
did before. This album is pure metal. Aggresive, Driving, and heavy...very
heavy.
Posted by
Kizzy: Let me start by saying that i really don't
like metallica! however, if metallica is concidered a sell-out band then
so are the beatles. there is nothing wrong with changing with the music
scene. they love playing music and making money. what band doesn't?
Posted by
Trendkill138: I'm not a Limp Bizkit fan, but I can say
that they were not manufactured, and they didn't "just appeared out of
nowhere and got big overnight". Their first album, "Three Dollar Bill,
Y'all" was out for a year before MTV would even touch them, and they had
to pay a radio station to get one of their songs ("Counterfeit") played.
I saw them play live in March of '97, before they even had a record out,
when they opened for Korn and Helmet.
Posted by
Rocky Racoon: Im part of a a band and we decided to
write something a bit more popy and catchy to see if we could get on local
radio. Does that make us a sellout?
Posted by
Fred Durst is a pillowbiter: HAHA, you're pretty funny limp815, u seriously
think what Fred Durst and his bum chums do is music? Jesus, and I thought
Dubya was stupid! Any fool who has an IQ higher than there age knows that
Limp Bizkit was purely a corporate fabrication, made by a collaboration
between MTV and some other companies. They are a manufactured band! They
are even worse than those boy bands that you see being made up on TV (Popstars),
because at least those boy bands don't pretend to be any good, they know
that we know they are manufactured. Who the heck are gimp cookies trying
to fool? Only all the silly little teenyboppers, like limp815, would think
that LB are a real band. They just appeared out of nowhere and got big
overnight. They have no 'old' stuff. Technically, LB never sold out cos
they were manufactured to begin with. I feel sorry for you poor losers
who like them. And limp815, how old r u? A 7 year old can spell better
than you. Oh wait, of course, you're just trying to be cool and fit in
with the rest of your little teenybopper sheep friends, because they think
the way you talk is 'cool'. I know, it really is too much to expect you
and your pathetic friends (wait, you call it a 'crew' yeah? Or is it a
'posse') to grow a mind of your own. LIMP BIZKIT IS A SAD SACK OF SHYTe!!
Posted by
Brian Moore: "the second money is brought up by a band
about wheather to do something or not. They sold out."...so does that mean
that my little garage band when I was in high school sold out because we
wanted to play for money? Does that mean that the bum on the street strumming
on his guitar asking for money has sold out?
Posted by
Joe: I was going to mention the Ozzy-Metallica
comparison, too. It may or may not be true that Metallica has acted more
commercially than Ozzy, but it's surely false to think that Ozzy hasn't
done many things in his recent career for financial reasons. I don't consider
this a bad thing. Ozzy is in a position where, for good reasons, he sometimes
has to act like a businessman. What is wrong is how certain people worshipfully
defend Ozzy's music business decisions while damning Metallica at the same
time. (One example of this is the Metal guy in About.com. Aside from this
oversight of his, though, he's solid on all things metal.)
Posted by
DusksEmbrace123: Why must everyone crucify Metallica? They've
never sold out, there is not one hint of "rap" in any of their songs. They've
never gone on tour with a hip hop group, they've never done a TRL tour.Sure
they're known by everyone, but when you've accomplished as much as they
have,of course they'll be known. They don't cater to popular tastes, they
put out what they feel is appropriate at the time. No one labels Ozzy Osbourne
a sellout and he's achieved the same status as Metallica. Give the band
a godd@mned chance for FU$ks sake.
Posted by
Leechmaster: metallica has run their course. their
no longer gonna be the kings of metal, their reputation has been tarnished,
and after listening to all these new metal bands today ud think metallica
were the beegees. blah.
Posted by
don64: Almost 65!!! Never heard a METALLICA tune
that I don't like. Seen them live many times, will continue. Lots of great
music out there coming from white boys but METALLICA is the BEST.
Posted by
DeadAmericanZero: the second money is brought up by a band
about wheather to do something or not. They sold out.
Posted by
Venger: Burn in your FASCIST MTV HELL Lars Ulrich!
Who the hell put you in charge of one of the greatest bands? If you would
only realize TRUE FANS will buy your albums, Napster wouldn't be so bad
for you. Lars isn't even a very good drummer! It really is a shame that
Ciff Burton was killed in that bus accident so many years ago, for the
simple fact that Lars is in charge and driving this once bada$$ band down
the toilet! Limp Bizkit can follow Lars to hell. They are some of the worst
musician to come out in recent history! Same goes for Kid Rock, Blink 182,
and every Mtv fascist! DOWN WITH LARS! DOWN WITH BIZKIT! DOWN WITH CARSON
DALY THE MUSIC HITLER! He He He!
Posted by
GREENMUSE: limp bizkit is the absolute worst band
ever.fred has got the song writing abilites of an lobotamy patiant,and
wes plays the guitar worse than i do after a 3 day bender of md 20/20.in
the words of the olympic hero"its true,its DAMN true"
Posted by
RanmaSolo: (Just want to preface this by saying I've
liked every Metallica album out so far. Sure they've been like two different
bands but... Duh. They are. Now they'll be a third. Can't wait to hear
Jason Newstead's band.) That's a good point too asterix. Is any art still
art once it's sold? The simple answer is yes. The way I see it, anything,
no matter how it's made can be art. Even "superficial crap with no meaning
or soul whatso ever" is art if it can be appreciated as such. So like I
said, who cares if the so-called (perhaps properly perhaps not) "artist"
is a sell out? Look and see if he's still producing art. If that "artist"
is, enjoy it. If not it's art to someone else cause no one makes a record
for free. ;)
Posted by
limp815: anutha mofo talkin sh*t hoos afrade 2
use his own name. u cant say nuthin bout freds music so u just call him
fat. thats fine your a dum busta anyway
Posted by
Eagles: I love old Metallica especially Ride the
Lightning and Kill Em' All but I also love alot of the black album and
post black album stuff. Load is underrated. King Nothing is one of my favorite
Metallica songs and wasting my hate also rocks. Even the softer hits from
the CD like Hero of the Day and Until it Sleeps are good songs. Reload
was the truly disappointing album in the Metallica catalog.
Posted by
`asterix: Good point Ranma but why should if they've
"sold thier soul to make a buck" then that pretty much means they aren't
an artist. They've just created a scientific formulation of sound and tried
as hard as they can to stuff it down your throat and extract all your cash.
Now tell me is that what should be all about? Ask yourself next time you
pick up you cd - am I buying music? Or am I buying superficial crap with
no meaning or soul whatso ever?
Posted by
Ranma Solo: I think it was said best on Tool's Aenima
album. "All you know about me is what I've sold you, dumb f*ck. I sold
out long before you ever heard my name. I sold my soul to make a record,
dip sh*t, and you bought one. All you read and wear or see and hear on
TV is a product begging for your fatass dirty dollar." Who gives a damn
about the artist/musician? Isn't it kind of the same sellout mentality
to even worry about any factors beyond the actual music itself? "So...Shut
up and buy my new record. Send more money. F*ck you, buddy."
Posted by
rocky racoon: Yeah i have never and will never call
a band a sellout. Due to two reasons, one the only people that know why
a band changes sound is the band members themeselves so to try and quess
is crazy. And secondly artists music to be heard so if that means making
a few songs a little more radio friendly then so be it. Just accept it
rather then go around and abuse your favourite band for selling out.
Posted by
`asterix: My point? Ok - every GOOD artist has every
right to achieve fame and fortune. Unfortunately you'll more than likely
have to get in well in the commercial "mainstream" sound which isn't controlled
by the people or the artists. Give me something worthwhile for my money
- not some junk a hundred thousand other bands could spew onto an 8 track,
get mixed and tweaked - mixed and tweaked until it's absolutely gleaming
and no one will ever be embarrassed to be seen listening to it. No commercial
radio station will fear that sponsors will withdraw because you've gone
a "little too different in the style department". No car radio will make
the sound pitch too high or bass out. Thats when you've lowered your guns
and truly sold out.
Posted by
`asterix: Its neccessary for every band/artist to
change thier style - its a major part of the creative process. If I'd been
stapping the same sounds constantly for years of course I'd want something
more exciting to evolve. It makes for a better concert and appreciation
of the artist. The problem with for example metallica is that they lost
thier passion, became lazy. A few good songs cut in with really generic
slop.
Posted by
`asterix: antiG I think you've made some great points
but lets face it - all of the above bands came out with blander, over produced,
uninteresting music in thier latter career. The funny thing is that they
all morphed into a distinctive mainstream sound. Over produced and underthought.
Creative control over the music has wieghted heaps more to producers and
not the artists -and yes - too many cooks will spoil your broth.
Posted by
cg: great damn article, how bout for the next
one you name like 15 bands and say if they are sellouts or not and why,
i just think that would be a coolarticle and a great follow up
Posted by
2 limp: dude do you think anyone cares what a
limp bizkit fan thinks? the only think that seperates limp bizkit from
a boyband is fred is fat and ugly.
Posted by
limp815: metalica is selouts and R dinosores N
da rawk world. they need to play at tha old folks home for selouts
Posted by
World Industries: I'm in awe with this Ranttitorial aG.
I've gotta agree with the rest of the people praising you, you are what
makes this site what it is. Can I have your autograph?
Posted by
Nixon: I don't think there is any arguement that
Metallica's new stuff isn't even close to as great as the old. The fight
is over whether they really sold out or not and like this dude said it
is all a matter of opinion. I think they sold out when they signed up with
Elektra.
Posted by
Josh: Good point Lars made, but still doesn't
change the fact about the sell out issue of metallica. or maybe i'm just
a pessemist and their new music just sucks compare to their old shyt.
Posted by
the max: Anti-guy...amazing article. My very first
Essay in college was on this very subject. It makes me very happy to see
that somone else realizes the overabundance of the word "sellout" on these
message boards. Trendkill, you are so right about the Fear Factory issue.
It really pisses me off that they caught such a bad rap from everyone.
The band responsible for one of the greates Metal albums of all time(Demanufacture)
gets dissed by a few paranoid fans for adding a little melody to their
music. Oh and about that rap-metal song: There is absolutely nothing wrong
with it especially since it's B-Real (from Cypress Hill)in fact...it kinda
rocks even though it's a little out of place with the rest of the album.
Posted by
Leech: AntiGuy, that was the best damn article
I've ever read. I salute you.
Posted by
Trendkill138: What really saddens me is when a band
sells out, but with little success. A textbook case would be Life Of Agony.
Their first album was heavy as sh*t. Their second album wasn't quite as
heavy, but still decent IMO. It probably would've been big had it come
out now. But their third album sounded like the most popular, bland alt-rock
of the day. They had one single that had some minor success ("Weeds"),
but not enough to justify their selling out. Just a few months after that
record came out, lead singer Keith Caputo left, and was replaced by Whitfield
Crane of Ugly Kid Joe. They broke up a year later. They had potential,
but they blew it.
Posted by
GREENMUSE: as always a top notch article antiguy,i
have to say it kinda made think again on the metallica issue,though i still
hate lars,just for being so arrogant,i could care two bits less about the
napster issue.its a different band,they've aged,so naturally it would be
different.and i would have never guessed def leppard was anything more
than c0ck rock.but i havent heard anything older than hysteria so i wouldnt
know.anotherperfect example of sellout is sugar ray,i heard some of their
old material on the local punk station,they were actully pretty good.
Posted by
Lars: Since when is metalsludge an authority
on anything besides hawking cheaply made t-shirts?
Posted by
Trendkill138: I was checking out the Fan Speak boards
a while back, and on the "Rap-Metal" topic, some people said that Fear
Factory sold out. One person was like "They used to be a decent grind band,
but now they sound like everybody else," while somebody else complained
about the "rap" song on the new album. That was a load of horse crap to
me, because they didn't specify which record they first sold out on. Demanufacture?
Yeah right, that, IMO, is one of the best metal albums of the 90s. Remanufacture,
the remix album? If you don't like it, then tough. Obselete? I doubt it,
although I don't care for the concept album thing. Digimortal? My favorite
album of 2001 so far. Just because a band adds melody to their music doesn't
automatically make them a sellout. As much as I love Demanufacture, I don't
want to hear them do it a thousand times. I'd get really bored if every
album sounded like Soul Of A New Machine. BTW, even if "Back The F*** Up"
is a rap song, it still blows away everything else out there right now.
Posted by
Trendkill138: Wow, I was thinking about the "sellout"
topic this morning, and I find a rant about it! I've got lots to say about
different bands, but I think this time I'll just start with Metallica.
I'm sort of in the middle about them, too. Now, I love the old stuff, but
I don't think everything they've done since the black album is really bad.
I heard a lot of songs from "Load" on the radio, and I kinda liked "Bleeding
Me" and "Hero Of The Day", and "Until It Sleeps" has finally grown on me,
but the rest of what I heard was crap. I was actually impressed with what
I heard from "Re-Load". I won't count the first disc of "Garage Inc." since
it is all covers. I thought "No Leaf Clover" was bad-ass, and "I Disappear"
was alright. Sometimes I slam Metallica for doing what they did, but at
the same time, I do enjoy SOME of the stuff they put out.
Posted by
KiFi62: Particularly the last paragraph!
Posted by
KiFi62: I definately think they havn't! Just read
the damn thing!
Posted by
Josh: I feel the Metallica issue is dead. The
majority of people think Metallica sold out. I thought this has been established.
Heck even Metal Sludge would agree.
Posted by
Sven: I gotta say I agree. There are bands that
have obviously taken an easy route to success, but they can often produce
music of an incredible standard in a subaverage area. It still seems like
a shame to me when bands pander to their fans. It's my opinion only, but
i feel that, to use an example, U2s latest offering (where they went back
to their roots - yeah right - due to the fall in sales to their last album)was
a cash in. I think the way they were evolving was fantastic, but (although
still good mind) their change in direction is a bit... less good.
Posted by
KiFi62: F I N A L L Y !!! Great articl AntiGuy!
I always back up Metallica but you've made some great points that I've
never thought of! I definately think the word sellout is used too generally
and I was waiting for some one to clear that up, and you've done a great
job at it! The last paraghraph is what I've been trying to say since forever!
You hit it right on the nail! We all have different opinions about music,
simple as that!, some people may be disguided by their opinions, but that's
for them to figure out. Fair play to you aG.
Posted by
MTV-mainstreamtv: damnit you beat me to it, by the way we
need more help at the mtv boards, im yourallsheep
Posted by
iamsocool: just so long as there's styles of music
that people dont like, the term 'sellout' will always be used
