antiMUSIC - The Music Site with an Attitude!

Posted by Diane:
TRL is the opiate of the masses

Posted by Weirdoradio:
...I think you're all being played for fools and that limp fellow just decided to have some fun. I dare not venture into this argument, because a)It's probably been forever since someone posted here and b)My response rant ended up being 2 pages long in Word, so I'm going to have to trim it down...

Posted by cease the day:
toof, what are you smoking, brian is a total schmuck. not that I agree with pyromania on everything, but at least he/she is coherent and has a point.

Posted by electric phase:
i wouldn't shake carson daly's hand for fear of splinter's!

Posted by Spike:
TRL sux. It's the same sh*t everyday! Pop music here. There is barely a few good music videos. This generation had been brain-washed by the stupid word popular. The only good music videos I've ever seen on TRL was Sum-41 and Papa Roach. After that that was the last time I watched that dumb show. And Carson Daly...god don't even get me started on that dumb ass!

Posted by slash:
guns n' roses will always rule!

Posted by Ides of March:
Prepare thyself

Posted by toof:
poops to all of you, brian wins

Posted by huh?:
Pyromania and Brian Moore, you both need to go get off this damn message board and find a chat room somewhere. No offense or anything. Same goes for all you others who like to leave messages about what others said, although I must say that I like what Lopez said about music being universal. Most people don't realize that anymore. Is it just me or do these message boards end up being nothing more than chat-room substitutes that stray from the original article. Also, don't think that because you don't like a musician's work, that that's because it sucks. If you hate it, just admit that you don't like all good music. NO ONE LIKES ALL GOOD MUSIC. Not's not a problem. Just musical tastes. My sister doesn't like the Beatles, but she admits they have talent. For anyone interested in some good music to try out, listen to Days OF The New (singer/songwriter and COMPOSER Travis Meeks's blend of rock and classical) as well as Pete Yorn.

Posted by pyromania:
If you don't know how you took issue with my argument, then you must have a severe disability to use logic!

Posted by Brian Moore:
So...are you done? How did I take issue with your argument about hair bands? I told you earlier I was just trying to help you out and you took offense and started arguing with me about it. But I've already explained this to you and I don't feel like doing it again. Re-read my older posts from now on and that will answer any disputes you have with me. I will be checking this page far less from now on, because I now see that you will just be saying the same things again and again with nothing of importance to say.

Posted by pyromania:
Also, I just want to emphasize that it wasn't me that got into an argument with you. YOU took issue with my argument about "hair bands" with limp815. I've been just fighting off your accusations for the most part ever since then. And now here you are trying to say that I was the one who got into an argument with you and that I want to come out with some victory. Give me a break! Please stop twisting the truth.

Posted by pyromania:
First of all, I am NOT trying to win anything. This isn't a competition. I am just defending myself from your accusations. My point is, and has been all along, that "hair band" is a silly term. I am not really trying to prove it because it's just obvious. As for the sarcasm, I let that go a while back. I guess I shouldn't have used it myself because as you said it doesn't go off well in text. But if you do it, I don't see where you get off criticizing me for it. And about the speeding bus, it's only as silly as your "I don't pull the 'I don't have to do what you tell me to' card" comment.

Posted by Brian Moore:
So what, pray tell, have you been trying to prove? I think you got into an argument, found out that the person you were arguing with was at the very least on par with you, and now you're trying desperately to come out with a victory. If I'm guilty of twisting the truth, you are too. You cannot convince me that weren't accusing me of bashing hair bands. Yes, you said "if" on that post. But I see that as a hypothetical situation geared directly to me. (kinda like saying "if SOMEONE wasn't an idiot..." when they are standing next to you). Secondly, your claim of "toungue-in-cheek." Didn't you give me heat when I said something was sarcasm? If you didn't believe me, why should I believe you and not think it was just a cop-out? As for the speeding bus thing...that's just silly. Grow up.

Posted by pyromania:
I said "IF you actually care about the music" you would do two things and the second one was "IF you don't like those bands, you would just ignore them without knocking their image." In case you didn't notice, the keyword here is IF. I didn't say you bashed a hair band. And as for the second example, I already told you that it was a tongue-in-cheek comment. So once again, you are twisting the truth to "back up a challenge." At least when I back up what I say, I don't distort the truth. I also, don't "change my story," YOU are CLAIMING that I do so by perverting what I say. But what I say has actually been the same. And also, I never challenged or ordered you to do anything. If as you say, you "don't pull the 'I don't have to do what you tell me to' card," would you jump in front of a speeding bus if I told you to? And stop perverting what I say.

Posted by Brian Moore:
Scroll down to your post right after I said "limp815 I hate you...so much". The last line you typed clearly told me to not bash a band's image. Then, after limp 815 chimed back in the conversation, you told me I was blasting poison. You can use your "worldly accepted" counter-excuse all you want, but I'm not buying it. That's 2 instances. You see, I can back up a challenge, unlike you, I don't pull the "I don't have to do what you tell me to" card. I'll counter everything you say because I believe what I say and don't change my story everytime something doesn't go my way. Also you won't find me answering a question with a question. Just nut up and admit your faults. Call me arrogant if you feel. I call it being right. You've avoided a high percentage of my questions, which shows me you can no longer back up what you say. On a side note, you tell me you won't go on my "mission" but in the same exact post you tell me that you don't think I bashed a hair band. Pick a story and stick to it. I have no respect for someone who can't stick to their guns.

Posted by pyromania:
When did I say you bashed one?

Posted by gregg:
mtv turns 20 in august. 20 years of kissing ass and destroying music

Posted by Brian Moore:
Then why did you say I bashed one in the first place?

Posted by pyromania:
You disproved your own argument because you said that I shouldn't care if you say "hair band," and by the same logic, you shouldn't care if I think that "hair band" is a silly term. Now, what is this about "your relentless struggle to proved that I bashed a 'hair band' (proof of which you have still failed to provide?" I am not trying to prove that you bashed a "hair band," I said what I said about you bashing Poison tongue-in-cheek to turn your argument against you and prove that just because something is "worldly accepted" doesn't make it right. I am not gonna go on a "mission" to prove something just because you tell me to. The least you could do is tell me why it is that I should prove that you bashed a "hair band" and maybe then I'll consider doing it. But, for all I know, unless I use your "worldly accepted" logic (which is quite ridiculous) you haven't bashed one.

Posted by Brian Moore:
Wait, I overlooked one. I also made one more reference to your calling NIN a hair band...my mistake. See kids, even I make mistakes (SARCASM) and can admit when I am wrong. So let's see...that makes 3 responses geared toward that comment weighing in at approximately a hefty 5 lines of text. Wow, I'm really getting worked up (SARCASM). So there you go, I just wanted you to have all the facts before telling me how wrong I am yet again (SARCASM), and then going on to "turn the tables" on me. Enjoy.

Posted by Brian Moore:
No, I see that you used my argument against me...it's very cute. But the problem is, it just doesn't work very well. I don't know where or how you think I disproved my own argument. Any help here would be appreciated. As far as my getting "worked up" over you calling NIN and Korn hair bands, I responded to that once at the very begining and I later made a reference to it 2 posts ago. I would hardly call that being "worked up." As opposed to your relentless struggle to proved that I bashed a "hair band" (proof of which you have still failed to provide). I call that getting all "worked up." I told you I wasn't aware that "hair band" was derogatory, if the rest of the world sees it as such, I should just be able to explain to them that I was ignorant of the fact and it was not how it was meant, which I feel I've done to you. But you are just destined to prove me wrong, aren't you? So I await your retort of "more truth twisting blabber" but it's starting to sound like grasping straws.

Posted by pyromania:
What ta hell are YOU griping about? Don't you get it? I just turned the tables around and used your argument against you. Not only did you fall for it, but you disproved your own argument. Just like I shouldn't care if you say "hair band," you shouldn't care if I think that "hair band" is a silly term. If you are getting all worked up because I said that NIN must be a hair band because they have hair, then let me make it clear again, I do not think that they are a "hair band" in the sense that Poison is referred to, and that I said so just to prove how stupid the stereotype is. (I KNOW that NIN is an industrial band and a great one at that too; I think that Trent kicks ass) You say who cares about what limp815 thinks, but the "hair band" stereotype is "worldly accepted" only because of people like him. If the word was full of people like you and me, that stereotype wouldn't even exist, because even if we have different music tastes, we would just respectfully disagree without saying "hair music sux."

Posted by Brian Moore:
Mission failed. I wasn't aware the world thought of it as a derogatory term. I think my telling you that at the very begining would show you that my use of the term was not meant to slight those bands. Who gives a crap what limp815 thinks about the word. The boy can hardly type as it is, do you think he's even heard the term "derogatory" in his life before? Since "hair band" is "worldly accepted" as derogatory, but as previously stated, not in my eyes and not in your eyes...what the hell are you griping about? If you don't think it's derogatory, you shouldn't care if I say "hair band." So once again, your mission is to find one instance where I blasted a hair band...just one.

Posted by pyromania:
You said that you did not think it was me in this rantitorial, but that's not at all how you phrased it in the BB in rehab board. You sounded as if you were pretty sure it was me there. So, once again, it's not me that's skimming over key words in posts, it's you that is twisting the truth. And about me saying that NIN was a hair band, that was sarcasm too. It was meant to show how silly the stereotype is, regardless of what the world accepts it to mean. And why don't you ask limp dick here if hair band is a derogatory term or not? I agree with you that it isn't, but that's not what many people think. So, like it or not, because the term is "worldly accepted" as derogatory, you were blasting Poison.

Posted by limp815:
u 2 r still on this board? dam u 2 need 2 shutup. hair music sux an so dos axel rose becoz thats what he is. u guys r gay

Posted by Brian Moore:
Once again you're skimming over key words in my posts. I told you that you didn't seem like the type of person that would resort to that. But you were the only person that I could think of that would do it to me. But I will say it once again because you apparantly failed to catch it the first time, I did NOT think it was you. I was just COVERING ALL THE BASES. If you were the one doing it, I'd hoped that you would've been a big enough person to stop upon request, but you've more or less told me that you wouldn't. I blame things on sarcasm because that's what they are...sarcasm. It's not an excuse, it's who I am. If you call me telling you the worldly accepted definition of hair band defensive, then I am guilty as charged. I see it as me trying to help you not look like a fool in the future (go up to a group of people and tell them that NIN are a hair band, you'll see what I mean.) Now, I have a mission for you...I want you to READ my previous posts. All that you feel necessary anyway, and give me one example of when I blasted a band because of image. And don't come up with "You said Poison was a hair band." Yes, I did, but I also said that I don't view the term hair band as derogatory. So go look and report back when you find something. Until then quit putting words in my mouth.

Posted by pyromania:
Here you go again. More truth twisting blabber. I haven't even been to the BB in rehab page ever since it was originally posted. And now you are suggesting that I am posting under your name. Even if I was, would I stop just cos you tell me to? I don't think that anyone who would post under other people's names would even care if you told them to stop. Such people are called trolls and they don't care if it's childish. I find trolls posting under other people's names annoying too, but the only thing you can do about them is shrug it off and point out that it's not you posting. You don't have to try to attribute it to me. As for the hypocrite thing, I was NOT judging Limp Bitzkit's music by their image. We WEREN'T EVEN TALKING ABOUT MUSIC, we WERE talking about IMAGE. limp815 said that AXL was fat, so I reminded him that a) it's not true and b) Fred Durst is no better. NEVER did I say that Limp Bitzkit's music was bad because Fred is a fat sissy. This was where your logic failed. Yes, for the most part you do write well thought out responses, but the ones in which you were accusing me of being a hypocrite were NOT; they were nothing more than slander. And you say that I was defensive about the term "hair band," but weren't you very defensive when I said that "hair band" must mean any band with hair? Yeah you were. You basically blasted me for saying that, as if it was the end of the world if "hair band" was not "a term given to 1980s metal bands." You can keep blaming things on sarcasm and trying to smear me by twisting the truth, but you are just wasting your time because the truth is more than obvious.

Posted by Brian Moore:
...and, if it was you that posted under my name on the Backstreet Boy in rehab page, please stop, it's childish. You don't seem like the kind of person that would resort to that, but I'm just getting all the bases covered.

Posted by Brian Moore:
a. I called you a hypocrite because you tell me not to make image based comments yet you do (reguardless of your reasons you did, face it). b. the "high horse" comment was sarcasm, something that doesn't come off well in text, next time I'll make a note when sarcasm is made. You previously accused me of being an "MTV zombie" yet you know nothing about me and you can't "back it up." This all went down because you asked me for a definition of "hair band." I gave you a very short and to the point definition that left out a few details. Said details were left out because I was sure that you knew what a hair band was, you just needed your memory jogged. My definition displeased you. You got defensive...verrrrry defensive. You tell me to use logic and then you turn around and say, "for the most part you do make well thought out posts" (that's not exactly what you said but it will suffice). My point is, if you're going to keep saying things and then say the exact opposite the next time, you're wasting my time and I'm sure, you've got something better to do as well. Lastly you're wrong...I get a kick out of pointing out the shortcomings of others, not by imposing my snobby arrogance.(SARCASM) Welcome to the party. This is old hat for me.

Posted by pyromania:
One more thing, you need to come down from your ego trip. You said earlier, "I just can't stand to see anyone on the proverbial high horse but myself." This is just sheer arrogance! You are obviously making those ludicrous accusations against me just because you get a kick out of imposing your snobby arrogance on others.

Posted by pyromania:
Why don't you listen to yourself? You say that you make fairly well thought out posts, and you do for the most part, but then you go and make random accusations against me without any proof. I read every word of a post before responding to it. How can it be sure that I don't unless you are not in my head? And then you call me a hypocrite. Is that well thought out? I can sit here and say that I "think" I've proven you you to be a liar, but you know what? Unless I really back it up, it means NOTHING!

Posted by Brian Moore:
I use plenty of logic. Look at my posts compared to most of the others on this page. Mine are fairly well thought out and not just, "(insert band name) sux." It's obvious to me that you're only reading what you want to read in my posts, so there's no use to keep trying, but the other side of me just doesn't quit. Tell me that I judge bands on image all you want. I think I've already proven you to be a hypocrite no matter what your argument is. And it's my opinion that once you've been proven to be a hypocrite, you lose all credibility in what you say.

Posted by pyromania:
Before talking about logic, you might want to consider using some. When I was knocking Limp Bitzkit's image it was only in response to an idiot who was knocking the IMAGE of some bands, mainly Guns N' Roses, that I like. I don't dislike limp bitzkit based on their image, I dislike them because their a musically blunted. It's just that when someone comes out with a lie about the image of a band, you can't respond to them by changing the topic to music. You have to talk image.

Posted by Brian Moore:
If you think a hair band is a band that has hair, then fine. Using your logic, do you also consider all your male friends your boyfriends. You are probably the only person who sees the definition as such, but I guess that makes you the only person who's not an "MTV zombie. Reguardless of who made the term up and for whatever reason, the term exists. Even if MTV made it up to wash their hands of the 80's pop metal movement, people now accept the term and go on with their lives. Well, everyone but you. And those bands being "hair bands" is not the reason I don't like the band. It has nothing to do with the image. I simply don't like the sound of the music associated with "hair bands." If my saying that I don't like those bands is in any way "knocking" those bands, then I am guilty. Otherwise, I think you're putting words in my mouth. God, I hate to do this but you've driven me to side with the lesser of two evils. So let's play the "don't knock the bands' image if you don't like them" game. I have a feeling you aren't the biggest limp bizkit fan, but how many times did you attack them (mainly Fred)when writing to 815? Let's see: You called him fat on numberous occasions, you said he has a big mouth, yet he has small balls, also Fred is a sissy, a pussy, and ignorant. Those sound like they are very image-based comments comming from your end. Who would've thought all this argument from someone who was so sensitive that they couldn't stand hearing the term "hair band." I'm guessing you don't like me very much (which is good, because I'd hate to be your "boyfriend" (see above, perverts)) so why don't you take your own advice this time around and just ignore me?

Posted by pyromania:
Brian, if a band has hair and it is a band, is it not a "hair band?" Unless you are one of those MTV zombies that think that a band is a "hair band" only if it was from the 80s, it IS. It's such a stupid term anyway. If you listen to a band because of their image and whether or not they have hair or they use hair spray, that's pretty sad! If you actually care about the music 1) you wouldn't be using the stereotypes that the music industry created to destroy bands 2) if you don't like those bands, you would just ignore them without knocking their image.

Posted by Brian Moore:
I hate you 815...so much.

Posted by limp815:
every 1 iz against me x cept red7. people shuld just eccept that they are all wrong. who cares about wes anyways? freds the only one that makes the band

Posted by Brian Moore:
Look at you reneg and backout of almost everything you say, pyromainia. Either way the point remains that you implied that Korn and NIN were hair bands because they "have hair."

Posted by mtv-mainstream tv:
thats true you guys, mtv gave the name hair band to the 80's band in an attempt to justify why they dumped them and ceased airplay after nirvana came out, everyone was brainwashed by mtv into thinking that 80's metal sucked just based on their long hair and image, so when you ask an average mtv fan why they dont show any metal anymore they will just say "hair metal sucks", some of you may understand what im trying to say some of you may not, but my point is that not all 80's metal was hair bands, and just because some bands had long hair doesnt mean that they sucked, metallica had long hair. van halen had long hair, iron maiden had long hair, so do hair bands suck. NO, but their are many people out their who have been tricked into thinking 80's rock sucked just because of its image and not musical talent

Posted by pyromania:
Actually I grew up during the 90s. Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean that there aren't people with different tastes who do like it. I bet there are people who would say that liking the stuff that you listen to, whatever it is, is inexcusable. But it doesn't matter because musical taste is all relative. And I don't like Limp Bitzkit, but Incubus is kind of cool. Anyway, I am glad that you can't criticize Poison and Winger's musicianship, and the only thing you can do is childishly accuse them that they "suck dick." All I know is that they've went out with some of the hottest women on the planet. Either way, they get the last laugh.

Posted byRed7:
There's been a little too much apology for liking Winger and Poison in this forum. Winger and Poison SUCK DICK! Liking them is inexcusable. I can't think of a band that's sucks harder goat dick than those two bands (maybe Whitesnake). If you had grown up 10 years later, you'd really be into L. Bizkit or Incubus by now.

Posted bypyromania:
aG, I pretty much agree with you on everything you said. I never claimed that Poison or Winger were "heavy metal" bands (though the album Pull by Winger might qualify). That is certainly a name that would fit Priest and Maiden. There IS a deference between heavy metal and pop metal, but they are both types of metal nevertheless. Pop metal bands did rely on their image to sell a ton of albums, but it doesn't mean that the talent was not there. Now, I am not saying that Poison is as talented as Iron Maiden. Maiden is just out of this world! Poison, on the other hand, writes fun, party songs, which is cool in its own way. If you listen to the sound structure and the way in which guitars are used, they are all metal bands - just different types of metal.

Posted bypyromania:
Brian, I never said that Poison or Warrant were not what you called "hair bands." I just said that the term and your description of it is flawed. Just because MTV made the whole world think of winger and warrant as "hair bands" doesn't make the name right. After all, they have the whole world believing that the Backstreet Boys are musicians and they don't even write their own songs or play most of their instruments. Personally, I don't care what anyone calls bands that I like, I was just pointing out that using the term "hair band" is messed up. Just because people accept something, it doesn't always mean that it's right. As for the music I like, I listen to all sorts of things and I rarely disrespect someone's opinions unless they start bashing things that I like in the disrespectful way that limp 815 did. Trust me, I listen to so many different types of music that there's always someone who disagrees with me and I always respect them unless they act like jackasses. I think that you are taking this too seriously because I didn't mean my post in a negative way.

Posted byaG:
Ok Poison and Winger are not metal. Never were. Let's clear that up right now. The term hair metal or glam rock, hair band was used in the 80's as well as pop metal to describe band with the flamboyant visual style, other bands with a poppier sound or polish to their style were also grouped into that catergory like Great White a band that never went for the "glam" look, never the less because they were on the softer end of the hard rock spectrum they got lumped in with bands like Poison and Bon Jovi. Not even using the most liberal definition of heavy metal do bands like Poison or Warrant qualify as metal. metal = Judas Priest, Iron Maiden etc Pop metal = Poison Winger, Warrent, Def Leppard (Hysteria - on.) I assure that the music media may have made that misqualification but the hard core metal bands never mixed up Poison and Metallica. Now I'm not knocking those bands, hey if that's what you are into and it floats your boat more power to you, I know Poison is still out selling out arenas but I had to throw my 2 cents into this debate.. hair bands was a deragotory term used in the 80's towards bands like poison, warrant etc because people felt they relied more on image then talent.

Posted byBrian Moore:
Jesus Christ pyromania, who pissed in you oatmeal? Let me ask you this, "who ta hell" are you to say that winger and poison aren't hair bands. You asked me for a definition of "hair band." I gave you the most widely accepted use of the term and some examples of bands that I feel fit the category. I never said that all metal bands from the 80s were hair bands, and that all 80s metal bands were hair bands, end of story, did I? I said that was the general connotation that the term "hair band" has. And sorry to burst your bubble but most of the world thinks of winger and poison as hair bands too, deal. Hair band is not a derrogetory term, it's just a classification, an adjective, so don't get so sensitive over something so inconsequential. And if you are going to question my fanship of music, I will question yours...If it was music that mattered to you, you would realize that not everyone likes the same music that you do and should respect my goddamned opinion.

Posted bypyromania:
Who ta hell are you to decide if metal is a bad term for Winger or Poison? There are many different types of metal and those two bands certainly fall under the pop metal category. Plus, even if they were "a lot of the metal bands of the time," they weren't ALL of the metal bands of the time, so yes, unless you didn't consider Metallica to be a metal band in the 1980s, you were stereotyping them as a hair band by saying that it "is a term given to 1980s metal bands." Which is just wrong because Metallica was the anti-"hair band," if that's what you call bands like Winger and Poison. Anyway, "hair band" is just what people who "listen" to music for image and not for the music itself call those bands. If it was music that mattered to you, you wouldn't even care what they are called, and you definitely wouldn't fall for catch phrases, like "hair band," that were created by MTV in order to kick metal out of the mainstream.

Posted byBrian Moore:
...and I still think that Henry Rollins could beat the hell out of both Axl and Fred but this isn't my argument, and it matters not.

Posted byBrian Moore:
Pyromania, I don't consider those bands hair bands and I don't remember stereotyping them as such. Keep in mind a lot of the metal bands of the time were winger and poison and the like (metal is a bad term for them but that's what most would call it.) Bands like that are what I consider hair bands.

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