Fan Speak Here is your chance
to agree or disagree, call me names or praise me for my insight. Everyone
has an opinion. You just read mine, now lets hear yours!
Fan
Speak:
Posted by aG:
the operative word is voluntary. Setting aside a few moments each day for people to pray that wish to is not requiring it.
Posted by Lori:
Um, I think I meant to say inspired reasoning.
Posted by Lori:
aG, reference the Religious Freedom Amendment proposed by Newt Gingrich, Dick Armey et al. The Republican proposal to restore "voluntary prayer" in public schools would let local school authorities require the saying of a prayer at the beginning of each class day. Local school officials would have wide latitude to encourage and institute school prayers.
A school prayer amendment would allow government officials to make decisions that favor a particular faith. While prayers would not be organized by school employees, the amendment would allow administrators to impose their religious beliefs by permitting students to hold prayers at mandatory school events. It would also allow public funds to be used by religious institutions. Why do we need institutionalized prayer in schools? Why can't we let things be and pray in private or in a church of our choice? The drafters of the Constitution explicitly expressed the need for a separation between church and state. I see absolutely no reason to second guess the inspirational reasoning of our founding fathers on this particular subject.
Posted by aG:
Lori, I would be interested in seeing where the Republican party proposed amending the Constitution to "to allow public officials, including teachers, to dictate how, when and where school children and others should pray." I know there are kooks in the both parties but I highly doubt the Republican party as a whole holds the to aim to "dictate how, when and where school children and others should pray." I watch the politics of both parties, I have never heard the GOP advocate forced prayer. I actually wrote a paper in school arguing the "voluntary prayer issue" and how the 1st Amendment guarantees it and did a lot of research on this topic. Granted this was a few years ago.. Maybe you are speaking about a fringe element like the Christian Coalition? Or maybe you are taking the old idea that was tossed around about have a few minutes each morning set aside in schools for silent prayer, for those who wished to. That's hardly dictating how, when and where school children should pray. But that's a moot point, the GOP does not officially enforce that position any longer. The official GOP platform on school prayer is "We will continue to work for the return of voluntary school prayer to our schools and will strongly enforce the Republican legislation that guarantees equal access to school facilities by student religious groups. We strongly support voluntary student-initiated prayer in school without governmental interference." I disagree with the GOP on some issues but I happen to agree with them on this one.
Posted by Lori:
aG, the Republicans want to amend the Constitution to allow public officials, including teachers, to dictate how, when and where school children and others should pray. The First Amendment gives us the complete freedom of religious conscience through the nonestablishment of religion. The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly said that officially organized prayer is coercive in a school environment, even when designated as "voluntary." In my opinion, this is organized prayer by stealth. Even though I disagree with you on this, I do appreciate your constructive criticism.
Posted by aG: Lori, I said that
?? made a better argument because he did. Let me explain why I say this,
you took what he was arguing out of context when you did offer counter
arguments. I don’t recall ?? every advocating “mandatory” prayer anywhere.
I believe ??’s point was it was wrong to keep people who believe a certain
way from voluntarily praying. I happen to agree with that; to keep
people from voluntarily praying is the real violation of the second part
of the separation of church and state in the 1st amendment; “prohibiting
the free exercise thereof”. That’s the real issue. Isn’t banning voluntary
prayer in fact “prohibiting the free exercise thereof?” I’ve heard all
the anti-religious arguments before and I don’t buy it. What’s wrong with
a group of students who believe the same thing getting together to share
in their own beliefs with each other? Isn’t it anti-religious bigotry to
single them out and say,“no you can’t do that?” I don’t think the first
amendment was set up for that purpose; its purpose was to keep the state
from endorsing ONE church and ONE religion. If a group of Muslim students
wanted to form a Muslim club and a school barred them from doing so, we
would hear cries of racism. It’s just as wrong to single out any group,
whether it is an ethnic group or religious group. And hiding behind the
1st amendment with a bias interpretation isn’t going make it any less bigoted.
I know fundamentalist get on people’s nerves with their holier than thou
attitude, but should such an attitude be meet with the same kind attitude
arguing the opposite point of view? I think a lot of people judge Christians
by the Pat Robertson’s of the world and it’s true other judge other groups
by their some of most extreme members who shout the loudest. I don’t think
Jesse Jackson represents the views of all black Americans anymore than
David Duke represents the views of white Americans. I can’t speak for any
Christian group, since I don’t belong to one but I still see this absolute
hatred of Christians on the same level as I see the ignorant hatred of
any group. The purpose of the 1st amendment was to guarantee people freedom
of religious belief, so they wouldn’t have one forced down their throats
from the government, I highly doubt they meant it as a bar to religious
belief. If you are going to keep voluntarily school prayer out of
school than you have to keep every other outside group from having organizations
or groups on public school property. I have yet to hear anyone advocate
mandatory school prayer and using the word God in the pledge isn’t endorsing
anyone religion because most people realize that the name is used to represent
a higher power that can applied to any religion that recognized a Deity.
I don’t believe in any one group ramming their beliefs down the throat
of another, whether it is fundamentalist Christians or militant atheists.
I saw let them have their school prayer, who is it really harming? Unless
they are preaching to other students what’s the big deal? Unless of course
you have a real bias against people practicing their religion but that
is a whole other issue. And one last thought when thinking about a small
vocal minority among all religious groups, battling bigotry used in the
name of religion with bigotry in the name of anti-religion gets you no
where. d
