antiMUSIC - The Music Site with an Attitude!

Posted by Dave Grohl:
Kirky, run away with me. We can run to seattle and have buut sex all day! Ohhh..........

Posted by [fade]:
I'm so glad this is an online discussion and not some real life debate. Otherwise some people will already be hospitalised. Downside to it though is there's no real soup to pass around.

Posted by el unico:
don philly or whatever you call yourself you fag ... posting as me was the gayest thing anyone has ever done and you're starting to sound gayer and gayer by the minute ... maybe you should just post as GAYLORD from now on you queer and i bet you are A 27 YEAR OLD VIRGIN you dirty little C0ck boy and one more thing i'm a dude you queer ... fat goth girls are probably the only kind of tail you can get ... so buzz of anal boy

Posted by aG:
Advocate, it's not some obscure Swedish dish that no one ever heard of is it? Come on man, we can create a cool logo, a spiffy name like Dante's Death Brew and make up about 20 t-shirts so the underground people can walk around with pride knowning that no one else has ever tasted this mysterious food!

Posted by The Advocate Devil:
Soup used to be cool. Then it got popular. Now it sucks. I've discovered something better than soup, but I'm not going to tell you people what it is. I'm going to be cool all by myself and eat my new-found, ultra-cool food while it is still unknown to the masses. Cub Foods, Safeway, and Piggly Wiggly will ruin my coolness soon for sure, so I'm going to savor it for the time being. And to you posers, it's not Maccaroni and Cheese. :P

Posted by aG:
Thanks for the laughs Jed. You should try better insults next time. Be a little more creative. Do you realize you made Scott's point with your comments about Lenny Kravitz? Of course, aside from saying that the band's Scott listed sucked, you really didn't counter his claim that people turn on bands once they are popular. In fact, you just indirectly agreed with him by jumping on the "they suck" bandwagon. They may indeed suck and I agree some of them do but that doesn't really counter what is being discussed here. Which is the fact that some people turn on bands they once liked simply because they become widely popular. Whether you liked any of those bands before they became popular isn't the really the issue, you seem content to follow the general mainstream opinion that they "all suck". I do have to ask, This isn't RockGirl with a sex change is it? Wait, you aren't coming back so you can't answer that. If you do come back, beware of sarcasm as you obviously fall into the category of people that can't recognize it when you read or hear it. Nuff said, you expressed your opinion, now run along to your "real rock review" sites since you want to offer a differing opinion here but want the same opinions as "the flock" in your rock reviews. You can still have soup but make sure none of your friends think it sucks.

Posted by Mr. huh? saying, "My Generation Sucks!":
Actually, Korn haven't been around for ten years yet.

Posted by Jed:
To Scott "Slapp: For the most part the bands you listed in your reply to Rock Girl do indeed suck and if you ever visited any real rock review sites you would see that the critics call Dave Matthews Band mediocre, formulaic pop rock. Lenny Kravitz used to be great (Let Love Rule, for example), but now he sucks big time. I won't go into excessive detail since you hate that so much, but just about every band on your list sucks. Okay, now you and aG go ahead and call me stupid, tool, pathetic and all the other childish names you can come up with, and then go ahead and cut me off from your in-bred site if you want. Now that I've had my say, I will not be returning since I plan to visit more intelligent sites where people can voice a different point of view without being attacked by a pack of rabid animals.

Posted by a side apart:
btw i am another rock girl as well yes, and one of the few latina rock girls as well that i know here in Boston.

Posted by a side apart:
great article scott. You made a lot of valid points. As to make a point myself, I am also a Korn fan and i hate it when people jump all on the bandwagon to "hate" them kuz its "cool" since they "sold out". Reason bands have to experiment or change their sound (slightly or drastically sometimes) is either because 1.they wanna gain popularity or (in korn's and many other artists' case) 2. so they dont become redundant b/c so many other bands are biting off their style. I stuck with Korn regardless. And to tell the truth, i barely like other "nu-metal" (korn hate that term and claim not to have started or be part of that genre) bands except them-it sucks man;people arent as crazy for them as before. I remember Korn doing lots of s**t between 1998-1999 but i think their big mistake was taking 3yrs to come out with Untouchables (it wasnt their fault though with david's rib being removed and him recovering). That really hurt their momentum and kinda made a lot of people forget about them as well as they dropped out of TV and music news for a LONG TIME and then all these crap-"metal"(poop rock) bands came out and now you have artists like sr-71 and crazytown all over TV and Radio. YUCK! oh well, that's just be complaining. Point is, i am stil loyal to Korn and the fact that they have been around for 10yrs proves that they arent some really fast trend or band that will have one hit single and disappear afterwards or be some dumbass joke (crazytown once again). Again - great article...now people who will prob b*tch about my article and diss korn will post as well :) I dont care, to each their own man, its what makes the world diverse i guess.

Posted by LithiumBliss:
"No one here can recognize sarcasm criticism." - Nicole (the Blink 41 girl)

Posted by Rock Man:
I do love Gn'R also, old and new, but Chinese democracy will however have to speak for itself. I can't wait to see the other's project come ti live. And I don't care if I'm in the wrong message board. Thanks!

Posted by rock man:
I lOVE ROCK CHICKS!

Posted by aG:
These kids today have no sense of sarcasm. I guess that comes from growing up with political correctness shoved down their throats. I didn't ban anyone, I was just messin' with her (plus I wanted to use the "No Soup for you!" line). She really overreacted to my joking with her and then when I explained what I meant and decided to joke a little more by quoting her back, she overreacted again. It's not my fault she's thin skinned and can't comprehend sarcasm. So I was curious to see how she would react when someone came back at her with insults like she likes to throw out. She can throw out insults but can't take them back? God that's pathetic! Doesn't she have any honest integrity? (Apposed to dishonest integrity, which at best is an oxymoron and at worst it's just a plain stupid contradiction). Jed, if I banned everyone that disagreed with me, there wouldn't be any posts on this site! LB, you should know better, you are the king tool of sarcasm. You didn't recognize I was just playin' with her? That's it, no soup for you either! Max, I think you might be on to something there.

Posted by LithiumBliss:
Jed's got a point there. aG, unless you have deleted some especially nasty shyte she said before I got here to read this, I don't see anything that warranted a booting. So unless I'm mistaken, let her rant. It's entertainment.

Posted by Jed:
So much for a "frank and open dialogue". Be careful not to question or disagree with anyone who writes for this site or you'll get called names and insulted and then get booted off.

Posted by Scott:
Seinfeld aG? Look I know I'm not the worlds greatest "ranter," this is the first editorial I have ever written. Give me a CD to review or a feature story on a band and I know the ins and outs. Some might argue that especially if they disagree with my assessments. When I was writing this I assumed that the readers knew more than they might actually have known and I don't like to bog things down with masses of details. Some people can do this very effectively, like aG, but I'm not one of them. I did want to address this issue and most people who have commented on it, got what I was saying. They didn't need it spelled out for them, because they have seen it for themselves. Now to this Rock Squirrel person. Read this carefully, "…over the past couple years while browsing antiMUSIC I've seen more and more readers labeling any band that suddenly hits it big a sellout, regardless if they changed or not." There is your example. But if you want me to name some names, here goes. This has happened to the following bands, some more so than others. Incubus, Staind, Ozzy (popular in the mainstream), The Hives, The Strokes, Jimmy Eat World, The Offspring, Lenny Kravitz, Disturbed, Nickelback, Coal Chamber, System of a Down, NOFX, Green Day, Eminem, Aerosmith (again reached a larger audience in the mainstream), No Doubt, Bad Religion, Godsmack, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Marilyn Manson, Fear Factory, Spineshank, Metallica, Radiohead, FenixTX, Lauryn Hill, Dave Matthews Band, Neurotica, Rancid, Opeth, and Sublime. Still want to be bitchslapped?

Posted by Max:
aG, why'd you have to kick her off. I was enjoying her stupidity. She sounds like one of those "women's study" types that was offended by the word bitchslapped but probably owns a whole collection of rap CDs.

Posted by aG:
RockGirl, you really don't get out much! Either that or you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Take your pick! By the way, integrity and honesty is basically the same thing. Of course, you are far too dense to see that. Have you never heard of sarcasm? Stupid little girl, why don't you grow up? I'm sorry but you are far too stupid and clueless to post here. You can't even get the author of an article right. Want an example? Look in a mirror or at your CD collection. Scott obviously pegged you for doing exactly what he talked about in this article. That’s why you went on the attack. (Freshman psychology.) Enough of this, if anyone has an intelligent argument let’s debate. As to RockGirl, you are pathetic. No soup for you!

Posted by pick:
Wow, RockGirl, you must be the coolest coming on this site and ripping on this site's main personality. And he didn't write the article, genius: Scott Slapp wrote it, and just because it's not in Seventeen doesn't mean it's stupid. Oh, what's wrong with bitch-slap? I think that's an excellent phrase to put in an article. It's a lot better than your typical music review that uses large, rather clunky words to impress readers rather than get the point across.

Posted by RockGirl:
Oooo, what an original comeback. If you had any integrity or real honesty about what you're talking about, you'd name the bands you're talking about instead of trying so hard to make me look stupid by saying I don't get around much just because I'm questioning your argument. Why don't you grow up. Only lame asses use the acronym "lol".

Posted by aG:
lol RockGirl, are you new around here? I've never seen you post before this. Obviously, if you'd been around a while you would have seen numerous examples of what Scott is talking about. Thus, you don't get out much, which I meant to say "get around". Now that we have that settled, "If you can't post without taking honest criticism, then don't frickin' post. God, You're pathetic" - Also good point Mr. Huh.

Posted by Mr. huh? saying, "My Generation Sucks!":
Actually when Nirvana made it big, there were some who called them a sell-out with the 'Nevermind' album. And Selv, it gets even worse when a band that you like gets latched on to by the teenyboppers and mallcore kids. As for a good song getting played out, we've all been there. Remember when Goo Goo Dolls had that hit song with "Iris". That was a great song that got played...and played...and played...and played. Uughh! Eventually it got sickening to listen to it and you had to take a hiatus from it.

Posted by RockGirl:
If you can't write a column (or have a friend write one) without accepting honest criticism whether it be male or female, then don't frickin' write it. God, you're pathetic.

Posted by aG:
Don't get out much do you RockGirl?

Posted by Kirk:
Pleasssss sssssstop it! Ooooh -my massssssscara is running.

Posted by RockGirl:
Your argument that once a band who was considered underground gets a big hit, they are ostracized by the people who thought they were cool before they hit it big is flimsy. Since you don't give many (or any) examples of bands you consider to be examples of this except Korn, I'm having a hard time either agreeing or disagreeing with the point you're trying to make. I can think of a lot of underground bands that made it big, Nirvana, for example, and no one seemed to turn their backs on them. Even if some did, who gives a sh*t? It doesn't seem to be a major epidemic. By the way, you use the term "bitch-slapped" way too much.

Posted by LithiumBliss:
What's wrong with bassists, you tool! Hammett's straight, ok, I just think he sounds gay when he talks. Nirvana was great, although Krist and Dave also sound very gay. In fact they used to kiss each other a lot.

Posted by Dudeguy:
"Im 21, Can get in Bars, In a band, and....i own you. (My Band Coredevice.com)" Hmm....Don, you're probabply the bassist. Well, you're pretty good but most of the bands you listed are actually quite superior to you. Great singer though. Who am I kidding...you're a troll anyway.

Posted by Selv:
Umm, it could also be due to the fact that when song by a band get popular they get played a thousand times a day. One has trouble escaping that sort of thing short of flipping the radio off. It could also be because we all have a friend who drives us nuts when they get hooked on a band. back in the hair-metal days I liked some of Bon Jovi, then my sister got into it and turned them into a religion. Every song a mantra, every purchase a...OK, you get the point. Now I can't think of them for even a second before I have to reach for a puke bag. That's not elitism, that's conditioning.

Posted by Master Don of Philly:
Everywhere I go I create a following. I am God. And no El Unico i am not single. I dont like fat goth girls anyway. I think we all got the idea of how much i rule, so how about we end this discussion? posuers

Posted by el unico:
I cant player hate anymore, Don does kick ass, he stands up for what he thinks and entertains us at the same time, plus a saw his picture and he is MAD HOT!!! Even though i like KoRn, Creed, Billy Joel, Elton John, David Bowie and Disco, i respect Master Don's Opinions.....(Are you single?)

Posted by Usually a bystander:
Master Don, I visited the band's website you listed earlier. If this is indeed your band I wanted others to read a quote from your site, "the musical recognition they have been working towards." If this "musical recognition" Core Device is working so hard for brings fame and money will they then be considered a "sell out." This is a point no one ever addresses in these pointless debates. Korn, System of a Down, Metallica.... all had an underground following. They played to sold out local clubs. Sold CD's, and probably other merchandise to those that attended their smaller venue shows. Bands do these things because they want to build a fan base. Fan's spend money on their products and the band's, hopefully, make money. Not one single band in history, that any of us have ever heard of, do not desire to be successful. This is what drives the music industry, and allows us all to enjoy their talents. Unfortunately the media outlets that deliver much of this music saturates the market to the point where the "newest" band becomes played out. This saturation lends to the "boppers" (I place boppers in quotes because adults are just as guilty of following the movement too) involvement. Then it becomes cool for those who search for the new unique music to label that band a "sellout". It's a cycle that has perpetuated for a few decades now. I personally avoid the mainstream media outlets (MTV, local radio) because I don't want them to overplay something I may enjoy. I use sites like antiMusic to point me to new bands. I'm always looking for something fresh that will hold my attention for a few weeks. Most of the time my friends have no idea who I am talking about when I mention a new album I just picked up, sometimes they tell me that the local radio is playing them non stop. Other times you guys are slamming them for whatever the topic of the day is. To sum up this long rant I'd like to say two things. One, every band can be labelled a "sellout". The only way to avoid that label is to never leave the garage in the first place. Two, I avoid the entire "sellout" scenario by not becoming a media guided consumer. Therefore, I have no bandwagon to jump from. By the way, I just wanted to thank antiMusic for turning me onto Silvercrush. Their album is currently wedged into my CD player on a constant loop. I'd also like to read a review of Feeder's album Comfort In. I think many readers would find them entertaining.

Posted by el unico:
Master Don of Philly is a homo if you ask me and i bet his gay a$$ will post again. Qoute "I dont even know why im posting on this gay ass "Anti-Music" site anyway." unqoute. anybody wanna join the first I HATE DON FAN CLUB...... moving on to another subject... anybody here have any opinion on Nirvana.... please don't waste anybody's time and post something intelligent about Nirvana wheter you like them or not..... just wondering

Posted by Dudeguy:
Kirk has a wife and has said many homophobic comments in his career. The "gay boom" in San Fransisco happend probably a-boat 10 years after Metallica recruited Hammet. Can't even see where you got the idea........

Posted by pick:
As for popular culture running itself into the ground: dream on. Yeah, the notion's one to strive for but pop reinvents itself and never stops. When NKOTB was big, people thought once they fizzled out that boy bands would never become popular again. Low and behold, NSync has sold over 30 million albums. Life is a cycle, and the music industry is no different.

Posted by pick:
Yes, fade, you're right. Non-corformists fall into a huge category of people who don't want to be in the mainstream yet somehow fall into the lapse of conformity. And there are companies who exploit this "non-conformity" to a tee. Then again, I can't blame them. However, I don't just think MTV's to blame for everything. I remember when I was 14 years old...the only think I could listen to that would both piss off my parents and jam out to was grunge. Pearl Jam, AIC, Soundgarden, Nirvana...those bands were in my boombox everyday! I can't really fault kids today for listening to Avril or Sum41 or New Found Glory because it's their escape route. What else are they gonna listen to? Pantera? Too violent for a middle-schooler. Led Zeppelin? Too deep and moody for a freshman. Kids grow out of their musical tastes. One day, we'll all laugh at Avril and wonder what the hell happened to her.

Posted by Mr.Durden:
What was the article about?

Posted by the last don:
your in core device, HAHA core device sounds like they consist of white snake and wham! memembers, i would not tell anyone i was in that band. thats sad

Posted by Master Don of Philly:
Im 21, Can get in Bars, In a band, and....i own you. (My Band Coredevice.com)

Posted by [fade]:
Obviously MDOP is too narrow minded to accept creativity. Go join a band or something and see how tough it is to be in the music industry.

Posted by [fade]:
Kirk isn't gay, he's just homophobic.

Posted by MistressOfThe Empire:
I agree with Worldly Music Fan. Popular culture will run itself into the ground and then look for the next new trend to revive itself. Who cares as long as they keep making money, right? Paying MTV any attention is a waste of brainpower because ultimately it has no relevance to what's real, only a commitment to $$$$. As for Master DOP, his opinion is wasted on anyone outside his tiny brain. Why do I get the feeling he's a 17yr old underground metal fan who's got an attitude problem cos all the bands he wants to see play at bars and he's too young to get in?

Posted by Master Don of Philly:
Troll?, I own you. and if you dont know the many meanings of "Gay" then your gay. Why do i get the impression that all of you are 15yr old first time Metallica fans, and you heard Load and think its "Awesome". Go listen to Korn and LimpDickit. I dont even know why im posting on this gay ass "Anti-Music" site anyway.

Posted by Duke of Hurl:
I don't know man. He does hail from the city by the bay, San Francrisco.

Posted by LithiumBliss:
Is Kirk Hammett straight?

Posted by Dudeguy:
I have a sneakins suspicion that Don Of Philly is nothing more than a troll.......

Posted by Mr. huh? saying, "My Generation Sucks!":
How can a band be gay if its members are straight? Do you even know what gay means?

Posted by [fade]:
Damn great article. And i'm totally with dreamy here. Metallica is a damn good band and they need to venture into new styles and exercize their creativity. So what if you think LOAD and RELOAD sucked, it was experimental! They were having fun doing it and they didn't care if you liked it or not. As for the sueing, they have every right to do it. Bet you'll be pissed if i stole your original music and sold it to make huge profit. As for the 'popularity' and 'sell outs', it's all MTVs fault. For the past few years, it was all britney spears and boy groups (they're NOT bands!) and people were getting sick and tired of pop and started looking to rock for a breath of fresh air. MTV noticed this and decided to start cashing in on ROCK! This is why my friends, Avril was born. MTVs new pet. Come on, her album came out 3 months before the VMAs and she won best new artist, beating other groups which had sold 10 times more albums than she had then. She's the next 'Britney'.. just in representing rock. Notice who their target audience is. Teens. Teen angst. Remember the time you were a teen and you listened to rock coz it made you feel rebellious? When you felt good because you were blasting music your parents hated? Think about it, if MTV didn't cash in on rock right now, all your fav bands like Our Lady Peace would still be selling stuff to their true 'underground' bands and no one would lable them as sellouts. It's all coz of MTV, they choose what to show when the feel it's time to start a new trend. Now ROCK is the trend. Who knows, maybe in four years time, everyone will be dressing in suede shoes when MTV decides that it's time to market SKA and SWING. Big Bad Voodoo Daddy fans be warned! Your fav band may be the next 'sellouts'! Basically it's like that Scott said. A paradox. Everyone wants to be a non conformist. And the group of non conformist end up making a whole new breed of conformist. Conforming to be a non-conformist. How hypocritial is that? Just be yourself and listen to what you want to. Thats what I do. So what if I like linkin park and slayer at the same time? musically they're both great in different ways.

Posted by Master Don Of Philly:
Sellout? you have to be meaningful in the first place to sellout, you fools!!! Thats like saying Richard Simmons sold out if he got a talk show for interior decorating, who cares, he reeks of gayness. Theres one band that i will say sold out...Metallica, they sold out, they used to kick my ass, now they reek of pure gayness.Lars and Kirk squirt each other with love mayo while James is drunk in the corner rubbing one out. And No, im not a death metal fan, i cant stand people growling into a microphone for hours, im just a metal fan, posuer. Go suck a POP-sicle. And no im not being "satirical" you downs ridden niglit. Go drop the soap... on purpose. Bands i like you never heard of, there no point mentioning them, and some you may know like....Slayer, Black Sabbath (Pre-Retard Ozzy), Testement, Lacuna Coil, Iced Earth...But now even those bands are getting trendy. man, this post kills, i kick ass. Don \m/ i rule you

Posted by RidahNY:
Selling out isn't "the cardinal sin of rock." If it were, than everyone under the sun WOULDN'T be doing it. We live in a capitalist society where greed and $ rules all. Can you blame them? I can't.

Posted by Scott Slapp:
Who is hatbreed? Is that some genetic experiment gone wrong? That explains Fred Durst and his red hat. The mixed the dna of a moron jock and an ass-hole.

Posted by Scott Slapp:
Sorry, I forget about how ADD keeps most people from taking in more than one thought at a time.

Posted by Death Metal fan:
I won't even dignify that wih a anwser.....wait, I just did.

Posted by Nag:
Either that or he is your standard Death Metal fan.

Posted by WorldlyMusicFan:
I think you need to make your thoughts flow more smoothly in your article. It almost feels like you're jumping from one thought to the other, while not giving gravity to the thoughts you've just proposed. Yet, regardless of the shortcomings of the article, I agree with you. But in the end, who cares? People are still going to listen to hip hop, and it will continue to saturate every little niche in popular culture, but my hands are tied. Nothings going to change that. Bands are going to continue to sacrifice lyrical depth or 'hardcore-ness' for a larger audience. This is the way of things. In the end, who cares? Just pick and choose what you like, and what you don't, and leave it at that. Let popular culture run itself into the ground. I don't care who listens to what. Just like I don't care who prays to which invisible man in the sky, or which sexual orientation someone has. Who cares?

Posted by The Advocate Devil:
I think Master Don was being satirical, typing in the standard style favored by obnoxious 12-year-olds in need of their attention deficit drugs. The vapid laughing, punctuation gone wild, and AOL e-mail address are nice touches :) I think Master Don's post rather nicely exemplifies the "everything sucks" mindset that you find in the ankle-deep section of the gene pool these days. Anyways, I thought it was kind of funny.

Posted by GREENMUSE:
wipes forehead*im relived that none of the bands i like are gayness.i dont think i could live with that.

Posted by Herman:
Hey, what about the Beatles? They put out some of the "gayest" songs I've ever heard, but have also put out some of the coolest. Don't write a band off right away folks

Posted by Hatchy:
MDoP - pretty funny. I get your point, along with some you probably didn't realize you were making. You were big on naming bands YOU think are "gay", but you didn't mention anything you are into. Why not? You may own us, but since you like to cower behind a curtain, we don't care.

Posted by TK138:
Um, yeah, sure, whatever.

Posted by Master Don of Philly:
You Fools! Mainstream reeks of gayness and you all shall be shot to the tune "With Arms Wide open" in the backround! and someone earlier said "i listen to underground bands like Hatbreed.." HAHA Hatbreed is far from underground you little niglit. There is ONE "Mainstream" band i sort of like, cause i liked them when they were not Mainstream "System of a Down" but, i am getting tired of them. HAHA and someone also said "Shadows Fall" was underground....HAHA Posuers!!! I own you ALL! you know nothing, go listen to Nirvana or something. And Ozzy?! haha i remember the time when if you liked Ozzy you were called a devil worshiper and freak. now its cool...LMAO GAYNESS!!! Ozzy should be shot. Here is a list of gay people and bands.... Korn LimpBizkit Creed Metallica Pantera Megadeth Ozzy Richard Simmons Incubus SOAD Hatebreed Shadows Fail Elton John Slipknot Stonesour Murerdolls Mudvayne Static X Powerman 5000 Manson Rob Zomnbie Staind Stone Temple Pilots Green Gay Billy Joel Eminem Foo Fighters Nirvana Soundgarden Rage A T M Weezer TheVines TheStrokes TheHives............ If you need any help, or need me to name more gay bands, Im me at DonOwnsYou@aol.com and remember i own you!!!!

Posted by Hatchy:
Well done Dreamy. Here's a question to any of you out there that know who I am talking about - what do people think about Neil Young? He's been around for a long time. IMHO, be careful when you want to "label" someone a sellout because they change their tunes or style. Neil has gone from playing with bands, being solo, picking up his acoustic, to laying down some pretty damn good electric guitar. He's even gone across genres. Does that mean he was a sellout? Or does it mean he is willing to express himself musically in many different ways? One might even call it talent. While there are examples of sellouts who change their tune to fit the current trend, it does not mean everyone who changes their tune(s) is a sellout.

Posted by Dreamy Rover:
The first album I bought of METALLICA was their black album. I found it cool, I thought,"God, these guys can even do a ballad. Really cool band". Of course, my all time favorite is RIDE THE LIGHTNING because I love guitar solos & it's got the most serious metal METALLICA have ever done. I mean, listen to the guitar work on For Whom The Bell Tolls, Creeping Death, The Call of Ktulu, Ride The Lightning, Fade To Black & u get the picture. Black album had a lot more commercial appeal, and it was just the guys trying out something new with a new producer (Bob Rock). Now come on, it was lovely for my ears to hear James Hetfield sing a beautiful ballad too without making it too mushy & sentimental. He always had his own raw edge. He has a wonderful voice that can carry a good written ballad as well as a crushing metal monster song! Of course, I've ended up loving them for their early work mostly. God, they were tighter then, and just incredible, really pushing the edge of their musical talents. Now that's just what I like (MEGADETH doing RUST IN PEACE was godly!) LOAD was good in parts, it was experimental but the lack of guitar solos was what crushed me and millions of fans. Sellout? No... Suing Napster was a sellout act? NO again... I'll sue a guy too if my songs were being downloaded for free, when that's not my intention. Jeez man I would accord it equal it to stealing... so what if they already have four LEAR jets? Most people hate a band only because it's popular.. it's sad & it's silly. I love PINK FLOYD all the way through, their music is WAYYYYYY better than anything out there. And it's a hugely popular band. I love U2, always have... but I liked the work they did in 80s more than what they do now... reason? They sound too much Pop now, and I still tune into the raw power U2 delivered back then. Check out RATTLE & HUM. Amazing stellar performances. No, it's not because they turned too popular recently. I love IRON MAIDEN...one band that has been a wonderful metal band all these years. KORN? I read about them in a local music mag about their performance at the Donington music festival, raving about BLIND. I accidently heard the song over at a friend's place... he said a great new metal band has come up (this was I think in 1997)& played the song. So, I'm like, Ok, let's hear a good metal song & by the end of it, I'm confused. And my friend keeps on raving,"Imagine they use 7 string guitars! Man that's awesome!" And it didn't sound like metal to me. It was BORING as hell on the other hand. Later on, I heard their material & I found no genius in it. At that time I had no idea how big KORN was getting. It only surprised me later on, when I was happy that metal was slowly making a comeback with bands like PRIMAL FEAR, ICED EARTH, IRON MAIDEN itself & FALCONER, BLIND GUARDIAN, HELLOWEEN, ROTTING CHRIST, BORKNAGAR... but no, Limp Bizkit was the new METAL band according to the masses, and followed by Godsmack, Slipknot... jesus, STAIND whining is metal? DEFTONES, PAPA ROACH and god forbid, POD & CRAZY TOWN. It was a nightmare! And no, I'm not one of those who never listen to anything past 1989... I love ICED EARTH as much as I love MEGADETH & IRON MAIDEN. I love RHAPSODY & THY MAJESTIE. I love DREAM THEATER & QUEENSRYCHE. I love DREAM EVIL, NIGHTWISH, SHADOWS FALL, ARCH ENEMY, VIRGIN STEELE and SYMPHONY X. Granted, most of these acts are nowhere to be found on the mainstream, but that's just the case. I don't diss a band just because it's popular. I wouldn't like a band if it has less talent than it 'appears' to have. Bands like KORN and SLIPKNOT fall easily in that category. Forget the teenyboppers, I don't listen music for their sake, I listen to it for my own enjoyment. If I don't like a popular band like KORN, doesn't mean I'm on some bandwagon, being 'cool' hating all the popular bands. Hang me, I still love Ozzy. I love his music, and he's MTV pet now. And no matter how much you shriek wouldn't make me love his music any less.

Posted by Brand New Idiot:
You mean Korn are a death metal band. Ah shucks and I thought they were a pop band *stars in her eyes as she dreams about Jonathan*

Posted by Dudeguy:
I think it's unfair to assume that everyone who hates KoRn is "only hating them to be cool". I always thought they were a sh*tty band. I truly couldn't care less if they sold 15 billion records. Besides, they were never an underground band to begin with. Bieng on a major label and having a Gold Certified debut doesen't sound very "underground" to me. Don't be so shallow, realise that there ARE some people who truly despise this band. If anything I'm glad they're "mainstream" now, since their 11 year old fans can now stop claiming they're "an awesome, underground Death Metal band".

Posted by VampireRyan:
If that sounds pretty stupid or off-topic, feel free to dropkick me.

Posted by VampireRyan:
*Catches the max and scolds him* I have another example: Coal Chamber! Their first album got good reviews and helped them attract a lot of fans. However, the cds after that just stunk. A lesson to all you rock stars reading our comments: don't forget your TRUE fans. The ones who were with you from the very beginning. Listen to them and not the almighty dollar or the critics.

Posted by Aryias:
Just a point to bring up... what about the "they were better when they were on drugs" mentality? Not that I condone drug addiction or abuse, but there are a few bands (Stone Temple Pilots comes to mind) who some people feel have gone downhill after cleaning up. Is this selling out?

Posted by Mindskrew:
I dont know why I double posted. Sorry!

Posted by herman:
Hey, check out Five Iron Frenzy's "Handbook for the Sellout" off their second album Scott. I think you'll enjoy the subject matter. P.S. You're right, but a lot of people view rockstars as gods. It's tragic that they put so much stock in what a band sounds like or says, but if you were buddhist nd MTV did a "Buddha Weekend Bash" where they sent you to hang out with the "totally dope monks" and had missy elliot's newest p.o.s. song in the music bed, and the contest winners were two twelve year old brittney spears fans...you'd be pretty pissed off wouldn't you? I think you're right, but I do see where some psycho old-school metallica fan would be pissed at the black album, or fans of korn before "follow the leader" would disown them. Rockstars aren't just musicians to a lot of people. Peace

Posted by Mindskrew:
What chaps my A$$ is this. I am one of those people that listens to underground stuff by nature. Its not that Im against mainstream music, its just that what I really like isnt played on radio. The bands I listen to have LOADS of talent and get no radio play. OR, I get crapped on because people say that Im some kind of hater cause I dont listen to regualr radio groups. I do. System of a Down, Earshot, Trapt, hell even Shakira just to name a few. THe music industry doenst reward based on talent. I am going to seem very naive when I say this but they reards based on greed. I know that. And as I see it, it will never stop!

Posted by burning red:
Ya know its all right to listen to popular bands and underground bands at the same time, I listen to bands like System Of A Down, Korn, and Slipknot wich is are the perfect examples of what a teenybopper rocker would listen to ( im not really sure about Slipknot, but hey there popular ), but yet at the same i could listen bands like Hatebreed, Cradle of Filth, and Amen. Most of my friends have never heard of the last 3 bands i mentiond, i encorige my friends to listen to stuff like that but they'd rather stick to there Pimp Bizqiuck and Feminem roots.

Posted by chris:
i have seen a good "counter-example' if you will about this article. NOFX as you know doesnt promote their band at all, but mysteriously they are very popular in the "underground" group. Why this? Because you cant call them sellouts....therefore everyone thinks they're cool and listens to them. This can be a bandwagon too.

Posted by Nag:
Yeah, I remember how everyone got on the Korn bandwagon in 95-96, people acted like they were the saviors of metal. Then when the third album came out, and MTV picked them up, those same people trashed them. Same thing to a certain extent with LB, but I can honestly say that when I first heard Limp Bizkit I hated them, as I do to this day. One of the more clearer cases right now is SOAD, I got that CD the day it came out cause I heard they just finished up a tour with Slayer...so they must be cool right. Well, that CD never came out of my player for monthes, it was so differant, they were so talented. I got a bunch of people on that bandwagon a good year before anyone even heard of them. Now, I hear people trashing them all the time, cause they made it big. Yeah they are popular with the boppers, who have no idea what the message is I assume, but they are a diamond in the gravel pit of Nu Metal bands.

Posted by the max:
Before anyone kicks my a$$, I will say this, Limp Bizkit is a perfect example of people jumping on the "hater" bandwagon. From the first album to Significant Other they didn't change all that much, I didn't start disliking them because they got popular, I started because Fred Durst got a big head and started bad mouthing other bands that were alot better then he, bring that whole east coast vs. west coast mentality that rap was having.

Posted by the max:
This topic is the entire reason I stopped posting on this site. It seems no matter what band I like...somone is calling them a sellout or mallcore or some stupid shyt like that. Like Mr. Slapp said, I'm guilty of the same thing, but I managed to realize my mistake and grow up a little. Now, I can officially say, without worrying about being labeled a "trendy" person or a "tool"...*deep breath* I LIKED SIGNIFICANT OTHER! HA! *runs away to avoid the onslaught that will follow*

Posted by lol:
i dont really care anymore, cause i admit i like incubus, green day, (trendy stuff, but i also like their old stuff), and i also listen to real classic rock like the beatles, rolling stones, led zeppling. Its my sister who makes fun of me because i dont listen to underground death metal or whatever you call it. I simply dont listen to it because i dont like it. Its the same thing if a teeny bopper tells you to listen to britney. So we are both pressured into listening music from both sides. I just simply dont care.

Posted by Mr. huh? saying, "My Generation Sucks!":
Excellent point. Korn has gotten pretty stagnant. Downtuned powerchords can only take you so far. As for Metallic, I can't help but feel that they gradually changed their sound. It didn't seem so sudden. However one band that I do feel sold out is No Doubt. They used to make some good music with intelligent lyrics and then that inane 'Rock Steady' album came out all so suddenly.

Posted by TK138:
It bugs me when people talk about Korn being trendy or whatever. When they first came out, radio would hardly touch them. Nobody was arguing back then if they were "real metal" or not (For the record, they've claimed not to be metal). But then their fan base grew to a point where radio and MTV HAD to pay attention. They didn't change their music much to get popular, either, though "Got The Life" was a bit of a (welcome IMO) departure. In fact, they've changed so little that they were stagnant by the time of "Follow The Leader". I eventually got sick of all the teenyboppers being into them, but it was the stagnancy of the music that made me lose interest in Korn.

Posted by Viral Mind:
I don't mind if a band becomes popular,as long as they still piss some people off who are trendies.The one thing that does suck is when a cool band starts touring with lame ass groups when they get success.

Posted by sSoTaPd:
I agree with everything said! I see that kinda stuff all the time. But I do kind of see the other side to it, also. I really don't like the teenie bopper trend followers who hear the popular song on the radio and claim that band to be their favorite. That's just damn retarded to me!

Posted by The Advocate Devil:
I think you nailed it down pretty well. It's odd how some people wear their new-found music like an elitist uniform, then throw it away when it no longer makes them feel superior and unique. It's all rather shallow and has much to do with that annoyingly fashionable non-comformist mentality. Anyways, bitchslaps all around for the rocksnobs ... I'm buying.

Posted by pick:
Good article. I must say that I'm guilty of some of the things in this article, but I believe I have a good reason. When I started getting into music, I listened to Hammer, Vanilla Ice, Poison, Mix-A-Lot; or, for easy reference, some of the more popular bands at the time. I'll admit that, at the time, I love that crap. As I got older, though, my thoughts and emotions changed, as did my music. I didn't become an avant garde when looking at other people's music, yet I realize (especially now) how empty pop music is. And if the public, that damned group of people who don't know any better, begins liking something that signifies a red flag. Let's use an example. How about Crazy Town? I liked Crazy Town long before "Butterfly" even snuck onto the airways. People though I was crazy to listen to a band with two lead singers and a DJ that played rap-metal. Then, "Butterfly" came out and suddenly everyone loved Crazy Town. However, when I asked my fellow classmates or friends if they had heard the album none of them, amazingly, had heard any song other than "Butterfly." When I played other songs from "Gift of Game" they would wrinkle their noses in disgust. But they still loved "Butterfly" because it was "cool." Popularity is a fleeting concept, and your average Joe just has no clue on good taste in music, movies or publications. What am I hinting at? It's one thing to quit liking a band JUST because they're popular but it's quite another to have a valid reason why you don't like the band anymore.

Posted by bb-retro:
haha thats funny you say that cuz some dude just wrote today about how System of a down sucks cuz teenyboppers listen to them now. great POV man!

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