Posted by
Shayn: I completly agree, and am just as guilty
as the next guy about this. But now, I just don't care. I listen to music
because I enjoy it, and not because it makes me look cool. Fortunetly,
I was able to figure this out before I left high school, unlike most kids,
who figure this out only AFTER they leave school.
Posted by
Mr Intelligent: fukitletsrock
Posted by
Lizoud!: I agree with completly Scott dude. This
sort of behaviour is rerally immature and puts people of listening to music
in general. don't pay any attnetion to the chart and pop culture i say!
... why only the other day did i find out that System Of A Down had Toxicity
at no. 1 like everywhere. and i still like them and consider myself cool
and underground, hurrah!
Posted by
Reet: Please Forgive me.
Posted by
Mr. huh? saying, "My Generation Sucks!": Boligrafo, are you nuts? Grunge annoying
crap (I can't speak much for Death Metal because I don't have much experience
with it). The early grunge bands had some of the most thoughtful, introspective
music around. Was it (and angst) however became just another trend, then
the imitators and pseudo-angry nu-metal idiots ruined it all. And to respond
so harshly to Dreamy Rover. Their post had to be one of the most profound
posts I've seen in a long time. He backed it up with intelligence and examples
as opposed to just bashing people.
Posted by
Boligrafo: Dreamy Rover, go write a novel or something.
Grunge and Death Metal both suck, grunge mainly just being anoying crap
and death metal being long annoyinh crap. Long solos can get annoying especialy
when they sound like someone whining. Geez you gotta be insane to stand
listenign to 11 minutes of wailing on a guitar.
Posted by
Dreamy Rover: Let's start talking then. Lithium Bliss,
I appreciate your gesture. We do have your differences though & I think
we both can live with that. Like you insisting so much that METALLICA has
sold out, for fame and money. Now I don't see them on MTV & I saw more
of Limp Bizkit's video than Metallica's when both did songs for the M:I2
soundtrack on the music channels. They're dedicated & not afraid to
experiment. They don't need to do rap or nu-metal to make more money. And
their work on LOAD & RELOAD is still much more interesting than anything
else that came out in the 90s. U hear some really wonderful ideas on these
albums. Not sounding very metal, but having some bold new approach to guitar
playing. Try playing THE OUTLAW TORN & u learn many damn things. Of
course, I speak from a musician's point of view. From a fan's point of
view, METALLICA has always delivered. And no, it's not just gathered around
the fact that the members of METALLICA are brilliant musicians. Their songwriting
is exceptionally good. There are a whole load of extremely technical metal
bands that I don't like. I don't like Steve Vai, notwithstanding the fact
that he's a brilliant guitarist & can play as twice as fast as Kirk
Hammett. Because he's not good at songwriting. It's not only about technique.
But that doesn't mean you can bypass skill & simply concentrate on
honest expression. I like bands that have exceptional songwriting skills
and technique/ability to play their music. I like bands who break away
and try out new themes/concepts for their music. I am tired of love songs,
I am tired of 'My life sucks coz my girl left me' songs that are all about
self-pity or self-loathing. I love songs that try out new themes. Like
KING DIAMOND doing the horror concept albums ABIGAIL and ABIGAIL II (classic
stuff!!) with some great storylines, wonderful lyrics, well planned arrangements,
brilliant guitar work (I'm a guitarist & I love long solos) & just
great music. Like BLIND GUARDIAN writing songs inspired from Lord Of The
Rings. Like VOIVOD & BLUE OYSTER CULT taking science fiction themes,
making some incredible songs. Like BORKNAGAR doing songs on nature. Like
IRON MAIDEN and RHAPSODY combining epic storytelling with great music.
Like AGALLOCH doing progressive doom songs. I can find so much variety
in only metal. It's just a matter of personal preference. I am not the
type who says when the lead guitar is about to start the solo,"Ok, here
comes my favorite part." Either I like a song or I don't. I write the lyrics
for my band so I know that the SONG is more important than mere technique.
The only difference is, I prefer well thought out songs with a concept
behind it... not something that just comes in swarms out of the blue, ending
up being honest, yes, but stale. Grunge bands and their music haven't interested
me much since the beginning, because of their lack of vision and experimentation.
My list of great songwriters is Roger Waters, Ian Anderson, Tobias Sammet,
Steve Harris, Frederik Nordstrom and King Diamond. These rockers made me
a lifelong rock n roll listener & inspired me to make my own music.
Metal is usually as technically complex as classical music. And that just
happens to be a bonus, because metalheads like me prefer fabulousy crafted
songs that are not just creative but innovative. This calls for not only
emotional expression but technical brilliance too. The more an individual
listens to complex, well written metal, the greater appreciation one may
have for the talent required to create this art. The ability to appreciate
advanced, compositions is also affected by time and experience as a listener.
Having technical ability is just a means one has to make a great song.
The most important thing in a song is it's content. Music is an art form.
And every art form requires skill, originality and innovation to flourish.
I myself listen to a lot simpler bands like Duran Duran, America and U2
whose music is not so technically complex. As for MTV, if it's kissing
ass of Ozzy or Metallica or any of my favorite artist, I don't give a damn.
I concern myself only with their music not their image.
Posted by
Mr. huh? saying, "My Generation Sucks!": Anyone who prefers technique in music
over SONGS I don't think is a true music fan. And to a certain extent,
I agree with Boligrafo. Also, as far as reverse conformists go, can I add
to the list those people who talk about how this or that (meaning their)
music genre isn't just a genre, but an attitude and a way of life as well.
Whenever, I hear this from people, I just want to wrangle their throats
and tell them to get off their goddamn high-horse.
Posted by
LithiumBliss: Look Dreamy Rover, maybe it's time for
us to call a truce (not that I thought we were at war anyway, but...).
You like technically challenging METAL, I like "grunge". But what you do
not realize is that also enjoy some technical music. I am a huge fan of
early Joe Satriani, and you can't say that dude can't play. I (and an ARMY
of others) enjoy the "grunge" for the SONGS. OK, Kurt could not play arpeggios,
he could not swwep pick, he could not sing operatic arias. But the man
wrote some great songs. You say that Metallica inspired you to play. Nothing
wrong with that. Kurt did not inspire me to play, but he reinvigorated
my desire. What some do not realize is that I had played for years before
Nevermind ever came out. But it was the guitar theatrics of those like
EVH, Malmsteen, Rhoads, and others that made me realize that I should concentrate
on my bass. Kurt came along and let me know that I COULD play the 6-string
if I wanted to. This is why I will always love the music of Nirvana. It's
like back in the 70s when bands like Yes were the big thing (Steve Howe
is a monster of the axe, but I just don't like Yes music as songs to listen
to), and the true first punks (Ramones, Clash, Pistols, etc.) came along
and reclaimed music for anyone who wanted to make it. If you love the amazing
technical stuff, that is cool, but don't dis people who just enjoys simpler
yet still emotionally powerful music. Yet we both can stand united against
the crap that is MTV music. HAIL!
Posted by
Demon Hunter: Good music is good music. Bad music is
bad music. Everyone have different opinions. If a band changes it's sound
and you dont like it, don't listen to it. Easy as that.
Posted by
Dreamy Rover: Boligrafo, I'd pick up Death Metal anyday
over Grunge... it keeps things much more interesting musically and thematically
and conceptually... BORKNAGAR rocks!
Posted by
Boligrafo: May death metal remain on the down low
forever. IT sucks no music quality just over use of instruments. This is
what happens you mix peopel that are too good on the instrument that they
play. YOu wind up with fags tryinf to outdo each and it sounds like crap
Posted by
Sh0t: This writer = biggest tool ever
Posted by
Herman: If Someone is Looing for some metalcore
that doesn't make you feel like killing yourself, buy some Living Sacrifice
Posted by
Dudeguy: Please don't use the word angst. Please.....
Posted by
Mr. huh? saying, "My Generation Sucks!": Speaking of Incubus, I first heard them
when the "Pardon Me" single off of 'Make Yourself' came out and I eventually
got the S.C.I.E.N.C.E. album and love it. That album blew me away. Especially
the DJ who actually complimented the music. Don't automatically assume
therefore that someone who catches on to an artist after they've become
popular is just some trendy dork. However, I do agree that it is frustrating
to go see your favorite artists after they've become big, only to end up
standing next to that b*tch c*nt scumbag who always called you a loser
when you were growing up, yell and scream about what a die-hard fan she
is, despite the fact that she only has the popular CD and probably only
listens to the one hit song. When many of the grunge bands became popular,
they started to complain about how a lot of the concerts they played started
filling up with the same trendy, bone-headed jerks that they themselves
despised in high school.
Posted by
Zulu: Death metal has it's moments. It's the
most furious form of metal. Very aggressive & flowing with angst. But
it still has excellent melodies to go with all the growling & the crazy
guitars. Pay attention to the lyrics, death metal lyrics are very serious
totally unlike pop, that leans more towards sweet melodic structure than
actual content. Note that a death metal song has it's own song structure
that's not noise but planned well musically. Follow a good death metal
song, like say by Rotting Christ. U'll discover it's not mere grunting/growling/roaring
for no reason. Of course there are pretty lame death metal bands out there
too. But there are some amazing bands that have more talent than all the
grunge bands lined up together.
Posted by
Dr Fever: I hope you're not lumping hardcore (or
metalcore..or any other offspring genre of hardcore..) into the "death
metal" catagory...a lot of people do that and it is the WRONG label. period.
The genre's are two completely different things....not bitching, just wondering.
Posted by
Manzy: I don't understand how death metal fans
can stand listening to growling for 4 minutes (I'm just using a small number
I know most death metal songs are much longer) But I guess for death metal
fans its the music they listen to and not the voice. Unfortunately for
me, I can't get past the voice like DM fans and realy enjoy the music.
(No blastage to the dm fans of course.) :-)
Posted by
Dr Fever: Ok, most of the things in this thread
made my head hurt...but there is one thing that bugs me. Hatebreed was
mentioned earlier, and they are far from being "mainstream" but they aren't
really underground anymore either. First; they're not on Universal Records,
'Perserverance' was released on Jamey Jasta's label and DISTRIBUTED by
Universal. Yes, I know they were on the Ozzfest second stage, but here's
the rub: They NEVER changed their sound to achieve their success. To me,
'Perserverance' and 'Satisfaction Is The Death Of Desire' are interchangable.
So, Hatebreed is one of those rare exceptions that went from underground
to fringe popular without changing a damn thing. Now, if only someone could
explain their inclusion on the "XXX" Soundtrack...
Posted by
guy with opinion: Well just wanted to comment on something
else since this relates to it: Incubus is one of my favorite bands and
I've liked them for a long time. Now I have nothing against Morning View
but i happen to prefer their SCIENCE and Make Yourself Cds way more than
the new one. And i don't think they have sold out either, I still think
they rock as much as they did before they hit it famous with Make Yourself.
The problem is with the trendy people. How can you enjoy yourself at an
Incubus concert when there's a billion 12 year old girls screaming for
Brandon?? Maybe that's just me, but overall it just kind of sucks when
a band changes their sound the way they did just because it's a whole different
atmosphere. I remember seeing them in LA a while after SCIENCE came out
and it was one of the best shows I've ever seen. It's just too bad that
its the way things work. I still like incubus just as much as I always
have though. Also just wanted to note I agree with everything u mentioned
about record companies..it's pathetic
Posted by
Manzy: System of A Down is more my cup of tea.
Posted by
zee: no particular reason, i guess. it's just
one of those pet peeve things. don't you have certain words that just annoy
the hell out of you?
Posted by
Aryias: Manzy, you said the first thing to make
sense in a long time on this thread. Be who you are, and listen to what
you like. Everyone else can say what they want, they can't take away the
emotion you get from the music you enjoy. On that note, you should only
listen to "true" metal like Iced Earth \m/ :-P
Posted by
LithiumBliss: Good point, demongoddess. It's all music.
About the word "gay": Why can't it be used as an adjective for sucking?
Ask any old geezer (even older than Old Lith), gay used to mean "happy".
The queerfolk took the word and changed its meaning, so if we want to change
the meaning and use it as an all-purpose insult, what's wrong with that?
P.S.: Do they still show the cartoon "The Flintstones", and do they still
sing about having a "gay old time"?
Posted by
demongoddess: I think fans who are with a band "from
the beginning" get jealous when other people discover them once they've
become "big". They don't want new fans who haven't struggled through it
pretending to be "die-hard fans". It's an idiotic thing. I'd have to say
that I have been guilty of it myself. Of course, once I thought about it,
I realized that good music is meant to be heard and loved and appreciated
by everyone.
Posted by
Dreamy Rover: There are two sides to this thing... ok,
taking the current scenario, the mainstream is filled up with non-musicians,
making music that loses it's flavor faster than a chewing gum... a die
hard rock/metal fan like me would never accept that... we all have our
tastes... ok, not everyone would just go out for someone having the fiendish
genius of Yngwie Malmsteen & would prefer something subtle, simple,
honest & straight out of heart... all making up to a wonderful music
experience... but come off it, the mainstream is filled to its seams of
talentless morons these days... now I would love Ozzy WITH HIS MUSIC in
the spotlight... ok, The Osbournes is funny at times, but I'm an Ozzy fan
(unlike someone who just sees Ozzy as a funny old guy on TV & didn't
know Ozzy before 2000) and I want his MUSIC to get the attention... see,
as long as the intent is right, no amount of MTV can corrupt a true band
filled with honest people who express themselves musically not just for
the almight dollar. Now I'd love to have lots of metal coming out of it's
lair... and having a good place in the mainstream? Why? Because it's so
easily accessible, that's why. I would love ICED EARTH blaring outta radio
stations all over, getting a metal video on tv at least once every half
an hour... and real good metal bands too, not just mere copies of each
other... I know that's expecting too much, because that's not the way MTV
would function. When a band becomes very popular, or changes it's sound,
fans should realistically analyze whether their favorite 'underground'
band is being sold off a trend by the mainstream or is it just great music
doing it for them or are they really bending in to the dollar. Don't slam
a band because MTV might find it favorable to turn something into a cash
cow and a new trend, and the band may not have any part of that. I'm sure
at times, even the most true rock bands did stuff just for money, sometimes
albums or tours... think about it. I'm done
Posted by
Manzy: It doesn't matter about what the band
does, is, or was. It doesn't matter if they are on mtv or havn't even been
heard on by the radio. All that matters is if the sound is good and that
you still like it. So stop getting all technical and crank up the volume.
Posted by zee: I have several points. 1) Given that this
is just a little on-line debate, I would like to make the revolutionary
suggestion that y'all NOT TAKE THINGS SO DAMN SERIOUSLY, okay? Chill. 2)
don philly and unico, I find it insanely annoying that the best insult
you can come up with is "gay." If you want to discuss your respective sexual
preferences, please do not burden the rest of us with it, and keep your
arguments confined to some kind of logical basis. By the way, "gay" is
NOT an all-purpose negative adjective, okay? 3) My main point... I completely
agree with this article and I've been saying so for a while. This is right
on. The kind of people you're talking about are reverse conformists. There
are two kinds of nonconformity: the kind where you actually do what you
feel like doing and listen to the music you like, whether popular or not
(some of my favorites: sleater-kinney, nirvana, the bodeans, minivoid,
beatles & even some old motown), and then the kind of loser "nonconformity"
where you act like everyone's favorite stereotype and won't listen to anything
except underground music... amusingly enough the latter ones seem to have
a deep emotional need to refer to the former kind as "posers" although
it's really the other way around! They whine about how their favorite music
never gets any airplay, but then when it finally does, they whine about
it being a "sellout." Make up your freakin' minds!
Posted by
DREAMY ROVERS SONA: :(
Posted by
razjml: god, this always happens, i read something
like this and get a whole bunch of opinions buzzing through my head, and
by the time I get through all the responses I've forgotten all the brilliant
stuff I was going to say. Damn you all!
Posted by
SimonDawes.com: But how can you distinct a band that changes
their sound wth intent on BEING TRENDY, from the band who changes their
sound to RE-INVENT themselves musically?And it's not as simple as just
"dont play the cd's" A huge part of why people must take affirmative action
is because of huge music buisness tycoons like mtv and major recording
companies with their spoon feeding. simondawes.com
Posted by
Angorian: Good point on Sound Garden which is the
greatest rock band of all time. Anyways on the part about selling out,
lets say for example there is an underground band, well they are not underground
but they are pretty close and they are fairly good and musically talented.
Then suppose it is their collective dream to be big rock stars and rock,
and so they do, they make a few albums and remain just under the radar
of popular music. They tour and sell albums but the cash flow is not great,
not much better then minimum wage. Then all of a sudden a record executive
offers them a bunch of money knowing that they are talented to write a
record, not they way they had in the past, but to write the record that
he knows will sell. Now say its you, what wouldnt you do for millions of
dollars.
Posted by
Daniel D True member of Core Device: I think it's funny that people pretend
to be in my band and share none of our opinions. Then sign our guestbook
with insulting remarks. The guy named Master Don of Philly isn't in any
band but the one in his weak mind. As far as this topic in concerned, money
takes over when the love of the music dies. If money the only driving force
to make music it is a business not a band. And whos to say thats a bad
thing as long as someone enjoys the music?
Posted by
wooah: well ..
Posted by
Joe Momma: First of all if you give a fück about
what anyone says or thinks about the bands you listen to then you probably
are a "trendy loser". If you like it, listen to it. If not, fück it!
By the way, Soundgarden & Alice In Chains are better than all of you.
Posted by
Scott Stapps Ego: Metallica sold out with "Kill em All"
when they signed to a "record label" and started charging money for their
albums.
Posted by
a side apart: well, i rounded b/c korn formed in 1993
and its december 2002 already. other than that, if you do count the fact
they have all been in other bands together or known each other before hand,
it would be then MANY MORE years!
Posted by
VampireRyan: Mr.Huh they technically have if you count
the groups they were in before Korn came together. And Metallica didn't
colab with Ja Rat, it was James and Lars (I heard Kirk saved himself).
Posted by
aG: Dudeguy, I don't think he was saying that
they sold out now that more people are discovering them, some people are
starting to turn on them. I personally don't think that's the case but
I have seen some negative comments lately about them. Whether those making
those comments were one time fans or not, I don't know. Aunt Augusta -
have you been sneakin' into uncle Ernie's everclear again? =)
Posted by
Aunt Augusta: aG I LOVE YOU!!
Posted by
Dudeguy: WHAT!? Opeth never sold out. They may
be popular among Tr00 Metalheads but practically no other music fan enjoys
them let alone knows who they are. Even if they did get "mainstream", I
couldn't give a sh*t as long as they don't release a watered down terd
to go with it (just like Meshuggah with "Nothing"). By the way, Lith, I
think you totally misunderstood my "bassist" comment. I was just thinking
that since he's such a Metal elitist (or at least he wants you to think
that), he'd be that "Marty" guy since he listed at least 5 or 6 Tr00 bands
as his infuences. Hail!
